Aren't you disgusted when you look at your gross income vs net income?

The MRI rebuttal that I made was to the other guy, not to you.

Tgfredsde wrote:

chinocochino wrote:

You are very ignorant of how and how much doctors get paid.

You're not paying attention. I AM a physician. I know infinitely more about this than you do (obviously). You are spouting the same rhetoric as others pretending to have answers for something that fits their liberal agenda. Do us all a favor and leave this to the experts.

HRE remains one of my favorite posters.

I've always had enough to live on and have generally been pretty comfortable.

And your complacency is why you haven't done better in life

So having enough money to live comfortably is a sign of failure? Sounds like someone has a good outlook on the world. There are more important things in life than cars and spending-money, man.

You are a medical doctor and you post on message boards with a name like "F the Po-lice" ?? Are you sure you aren't a bored 20 y.o. college kid? I don't know what would be worse, that you are typical pain the ass right wing troll, or that you ARE really a doctor.

Either way you suck.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

You are a medical doctor and you post on message boards with a name like "F the Po-lice" ?? Are you sure you aren't a bored 20 y.o. college kid? I don't know what would be worse, that you are typical pain the ass right wing troll, or that you ARE really a doctor.

Either way you suck.

I wouldn't resort to "you suck," but I was going to say something similar about an alleged doctor posting as "F the Po-lice." Those po-lice are some dudes with whom you don't want to "F" (unless you're immune to pepper spray).

This doc clearly doesn't own his own business. It all changes for the good when you open up for yourself. Then you pay taxes when you feel like, not every two weeks from your paycheck.

true fact, EVERY PENNY OF YOUR FEDERAL TAXES GOES TO THE MILITARY.

Everything else is run up on the Debt.

ryan foreman wrote:

Doctors are screwed by Uncle Sam. This is one big problem with healthcare in our country that nobody talks about. They get taxed so much on their skill and hard work that its a barrier to people becoming doctors and it curbs the supply of good doctors.

Is that why hot women will never date doctors?

Also worth discussing whether some of the regulations in the industry increase your income.

Well, You are showing you don't really know how the tax system works in practice or the whole economy in general. Nor how it used to work. Over 40 years ago the economy and tax system highly rewarded people developing skills and a doctor paid relatively little in taxes. Even when the top tax bracket reached 90%. High wealth people really did pay a higher tax rate than doctors. Today, the tax system and economy is skewed toward rewarding wealth and business owners who create "ideas" and economies scale using ultra cheap foreign labor. Senior corporate executives have tax benefits they can take advantage of that doctors do not. That is just reality.

My own dad was a doctor who started practicing in the early 70s. I didn't go into any kind of medical job but I went into accounting so I know the financial and tax side of it and I know about my Dad's work and the people who came up after him in his practice. This is an argument you can't really win.

You may be right about the number people still going into medicine. Most of the people have a passion for it first and foremost aside from any financial considerations. Plus, it is just about the most secure job there is. In this economy that goes a long way.

But I also know that doctors today are not working the long hours like my dad used to. They don't say its specifically because the taxes but when their marginal tax rates are upwards of 40% that has to be a factor. Its like you are being treated like a pack of cigarettes when you are taxed that high and other wealthier and poorer people are taxed less. The tax system is telling you we don't want you to do this. And I do know of people today who have gone through medical school and didn't pursue being a doctor. Besides that, demand has gone through the roof. Even with people coming into the field I'm doubtful its keeping up.

ryan foreman wrote:

I do know of people today who have gone through medical school and didn't pursue being a doctor.

That's never been unusual. It's known as separating the wheat from the chaff.

f the po-lice wrote:

The protocol is low-force, high-intensity strength training utilizing a specialize machine that isolates the deep muscles of the lumbar spine. Strengthening these muscles is vital, and sometimes all that is necessary for the treatment of lower back pain, and they cannot be effectively exercised in any other except with a properly designed machine, of which there are only two kinds available (neither of which I have any financial interest in promoting). Although it doesn't heal deranged discs and joints, strengthening the muscles that stabilize the vertebrae at the segmental level does wonders to relieve pain. The FDA won't allow the makers and users of these machines to claim that they can be used to treat back pain, because that would qualify them "medical devices" and therefore subject to the agency's regulatory authority.

I suffered from low back pain many years ago specifically caused by a muscle imbalance in the transverse process. With the help of a good orthopedic physician, I was able to alleviate the pain through the use of specific strengthening exercises. No machines were used or necessary.

Yes, I know about capital gains and corporate compensation strategies which lower the tax burden of high ranking employees. Among people who aren't being compensated in this way, this practice is almost universally seen as taking advantage of an unfair loophole. It is in the process of being closed (see "Buffett Rule"). The fact that the executive class is getting away with an unfair practice doesn't mean that wealthy people fairly paying their taxes are suddenly enslaved by the Na*zi IRS regime out to punish people for working hard. It just means that these rich but not uber-rich people aren't cheating the way some uber-rich do by evading income tax.

If there were some box on your tax return in the good old days 40+ years ago that said "are you a doctor?" which immediately lowered your tax burden by half, then yes, that would be an unfair advantage for wealthy individuals in the exact same way that corporate income tax evasion is unfair. You can't say its only fair to evade taxes if you're a doctor but unfair if you're an exec (this goes back to "stick to your guns" yet again).

Coincidentally, every time the marginal income tax rates exceeded 70%, this only applied to income earned above $1.5M adjusted for inflation, not the theoretical $300k we've been discussing. See wiki entry for income tax in US.

Then outright say what the tax benefit was of being a doctor and why that tax benefit was fair compared to corporate capital gains taxes of today.

man, starting to sound like docs have it good...

Huh? Doctors aren't working the same hours as your dad because of their marginal tax rate?

1) Are doctors paid by the hour to begin with? I'm no doctor, but I thought hourly wages were reserved for labor jobs, and maybe contractors at best. If MDs are paid hourly, then I take it back.

2) Your cigarette analogy is again backwards and is an unfair reverse personification (if there is such a thing). Unless I'm wrong, a doctor making $300k and anyone else making $300k in INCOME (not investment benefits as we discussed above) pays the same amount in income tax. This is not like the cigarette tax at all. The cigarette tax analogy would only apply if there was a special EXTRA tax of 50% if you have an MD, and again, I'm not aware of thist, but I invite you to prove otherwise. Note: I'm not talking about malpractice insurance costs, that's a whole other thread entirely not related to income tax.

3) You know people who went to med school but didn't become doctors? I hope you aren't trying to say they decided not to become doctors because of marginal income tax rates. That would just be a terrible idea on your part. Unless they instead decided to be executives in order to earn even more and simultaneously evade income tax, but people don't really just "decide" to be executives.

But hey, my viewpoints indicate that I'm a "young person" so I don't know anything about the world.

HRE wrote:

now you know wrote:

And your complacency is why you haven't done better in life.

And you know how well I've done in life? Wow! I certainly don't. How do you know something like that?

I know many rich people and have been around them my whole life, as me and my family are rich. The one thing they all have in common is that they were not complacent and searched for more ways to better themselves and make more money. You may consider yourself "happy," but you never reached your full potential, and if you have kids, you could have given them a better life probably if you had more money. Like it or not, money is what makes the world go round. In general, he who has the most money/power wins.

Refer to this quote:

"A lot of people tell me 'If I made 100 million dollars a year I'd retire and move to the beach'. And I tell them 'Well, that's why you'll never make 100 million dollars'"

In this thread:

Yes and thank god for the FDA. If crazies like you could just simply claim that you have a miracle medical device with no regulation we'd be back in the 1800's before you know it. You know, the good old days when Coke used coke in the recipe and you could gets marijuana candy for the kids and heroin was peddled as a cure for alcoholism.

You know your taxes are adding value to the economy, right? If you didn't pay any taxes you'd still have to pay something for roads, utilities, schools, municipal services, defense, and every other thing the government currently does. Maybe you'd save some money if the services became more efficient, but you'd still be paying some portion of your net income.

You actually KNOW my financial status? For all you know I could have millions. If everyone had millions costs would rise accordingly and you'd have people earning millions per year struggling to get by. Income disparity is part of life.

Anyway, you're confusing having stuff, and money is stuff, with doing well and fulfilling your potential and being or not being complacent. I do think about becoming "better" and strive for it constantly. But having more money is not a focus at those times. Again, we have more than enough.

If your family is rich and no one has taught you that wealth is only part of what matters you haven't fulfilled YOUR potential. I'd bet heavily that there are other gaping holes in your understanding of life as well then and earning piles more money is not likely to fill those holes.

f the po-lice wrote:

...If you add in federal income tax, CA income tax, SDI, Medicare, property tax.......... I pay close to 50% of my gross income in taxes. Don't even get me started on sales tax, but is double dipping at its worst.

Thinking about quitting medicine and opening a clinical exercise business and just reinvesting all the profits in expensive equipment, real estate, advertising, etc. Just because I find the taxes so offensive.

If you pay 29% in federal income tax your income is only around 500k.

If I were you I would move to one of those countries where doctors make 500k and/or pay less taxes.

now you know wrote:

In general, he who has the most money/power wins.

Man you are a really sad individual. I truly feel bad for you.

The salary floor for doctors is relatively high but the ceiling is relatively low. Conversely, the floor for businessmen is very low but the ceiling is unlimited. If you are risk averse, medicine is a good option financially. Not baller money, however."You may be right about the number people still going into medicine. Most of the people have a passion for it first and foremost aside from any financial considerations. Plus, it is just about the most secure job there is. In this economy that goes a long way. [/quote]man, starting to sound like docs have it good...It would make sense that docs aren't working the same hours...the PM and R doctor pays 45% of his income for the highest tax bracket. So he may choose to work 50 hours a week instead of 55, for example. If you look at the hours worked per week with varying marginal tax rates, the countries with the lowest tax rates work the most hours. The countries that are taxed like crazy...less hours.

This thread turned into TL;DR but I thought if docs wanted to keep more money after taxes they had to donate/invest in something?