Like he said, there are certain 1500m runners who have MUCH less class for the kind of antics they pulled during the race--pushing, shoving, elbows. I'm surprised there weren't any flat-out-punches thrown.[/quote]
Obviously, you have never run a race in Europe. Leer has, should have been ready, which he was not.
Enlightening article. But how are you so sure that with Lagat not entering the WC 1500 he is nevertheless still considered the 2nd place finisher for determining who is in the WC? Anything you read on this subject would only just assume that someone who places in a race is somebody that is pursuing the event at the WC.
Well even if racers who opt-out of contention for World's aren't counted for purposes of choosing the team, having them in the race complicates the dynamics in a way that I don't think is appropriate. As I - and others - have suggested, there could theoretically be many runners in 1500 final who are only on the starting line for national-championship purposes with no intention of qualifying for the US team because of a different schedule at World's/Olympics or some other reason. That troubles me because extra bodies not concerned with qualifying makes the final a different beast.
So I have a problem with the current rules unless they're clarified for me in a way that makes sense.
Also, I want to see the photo finish for the 15. I'm not about to cry "fake-moon-landing," but the longer it takes to release it the more suspicious I'll get. I trust the officials, but the appearance of a possible bias should be enough for them to release it.
Why do we keep acting like that Kenyan is an American.
ryan foreman wrote:
The stupid thing about this is that you can see Centro getting jostled about early in the race. But he remained unphased, chose to get outside and towards the front and he dealt with it.
Why is the 21 year old seemingly the most mature, disciplined runner in this race?
No way that Throat Slit McGee is more mature than Bernie.
Somebody please confirm: if there were 2 Lagats in that final and they placed 2nd and 3rd and neither wanted to run World's would we only be sending 2 in the 1500? Because that would be flucking ridiculous. I'd fed-ex a steaming poo to USATF for coming up with horrible rules if that was the case.
Sounds like you are just criticizing the system and how we take the top finishers from this one race to determine who goes. That has always had some level of controversy. If anything I think it victimizes a guy like Wheating. You run one stupid race at the wrong time and you are out. Nevermind that he will likely destroy all these guys in a fast paced Diamond League event in the coming months. But of course it looks like he dodged a bullet.
In any case, its the system we have. If Leer didn't like it being slow than go with it and seize the opportunity it provides. Go outside, stay out of trouble and position yourself towards the front. He should just blame himself, say he will learn from it, and leave it at that.
But I do agree that if indeed he is considered the 5th place finisher even with Lagat dropping out, that is wrong.
Hold up wrote:
Lagat races to win of course, but in the eyes of many people that race against him, it is easy to believe that he races like a douchebag.
He consistently cuts other runners off and then slows down the pace. If you have ever been in this situation before, it is incredibly annoying.
In addition, it is quite obnoxious to go around stating that you have no intention of running the 1500 at worlds, enter yourself into the US 1500m championships, and then as stated above, race like a douchebag.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand that a narcissist like himself wants to win every race he can, but his ego is starting to bug me. Another reason why I'm glad centro smoked his ass.
Well said.
I have no interest in slow races, but am quite pleased that Centro kicked his lazy butt today.
Not criticizing a do-or-die qualification system. Especially when it at least somewhat replicates the rounds-finals process of World's/Olympics. That, I actually respect (along with a standard-requirement to ensure baseline quality of our entrants). I'm criticizing the entanglement of "national championship" racing with qualifications. Right now, I don't think the rules sufficiently protect against a final stacked with racers who have no interest in qualifying (unlikely but possible).
Listen Up wrote:
IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE TOP 4 YOU CANNOT GOOOOOOOOOO!!! PERIOD!!! You have to be in the top 4 to be allowed to chase the standard. .
So if there happens to be two guys in the race that do not intend to race at Worlds, or there is one guy whos plans to not race at Worlds and another who does gets injured, then USATF would only send two. Seems like they should expand who's eligible from top 4 to top 5 or 6.
Hey, Will, If you would have run 200ths of a second faster you would have the opp to chase that A standard. SCOREBOARD
not to mention it would make rivalries more interesting if 5 or 6 could chase an A-standard (that was hard to get like 3:35 is). so the championship would still be legit, but you could still have some epic racing in europe afterwards for those chasing standards. i'd like it if everyone needed an a-standard. it would make rivalries a lot more heated. rivalries are the viewing public's favorite part about our sport. we should be encouraging them. nobody wants to watch some dude chasing an a-standard solo. that's painfully boring, even for track fans.
I'm about 99% sure that it's top 4 of declared athletes. Everything in the standards is for athletes who have said they're going to worlds as far as I know. So Manzano, Centro (who only needs a B as he won), Wheating, and Leer.
Still a classless interview by Leer. Lagat did nothing wrong, and gave his reasons for running the 1500 only at USA's very clearly in his post race interview.
who cares. without Lagat or Webb cica 2007, no Americans are getting out of the first round in the 1500 for at least the next decade.
I kind of see what you are saying. But it bothers me a lot the notion that one of the best 1500M runners in the U.S. shouldn't run the 1500M just because he isn't going to run it at the WCs. Even if it would help a specific guy like Leer (though I'm still doubtful it does), it would harm US distance running overall by taking away that competition.
Hey at least he wasn't throwing things and swearing like another 1500m runner we know. maybe the brojos will blow this way out of proportion too
I disagree. The schedule at USA's should mirror World's or they need to rethink the rules.
The IAAF folks who run the Worlds don't care whether a guy who came in second in as national meet is going to Daegu or a guy who's going 4th is or a guy who didn't even run is. They are interested in standards achieved during a qualifying period, anywhere. So ... people thinking that Lagat placing second is some kind of problem for the people behind him might be daft.
vivalarepublica wrote:
That was a stupid thing to say by Leer. The guy is frustrated for missing out on worlds or Olympics for about the 8th time. I also wondered why Lagat decided to run both races even though he never was going to race the 1500 at worlds. Like somebody said, he probably wanted the double national champ title, which is nice to have.
I'd like to see the photo finish. I did think Leer clearly finished 4th when I watched the race. Can anybody find a picture of the finish?
You would have to get USATF or the Oregon finish line crew to get you the picture, but U of O has THREE Finishlynx cameras. Having operated Finishlynx before, with three cameras, they didnt get it wrong. Ive seen a race where every single person down on the field thought one guy one, but I saw the photo finish and it was clear the other runner one. Also by 1/100th.
ryan foreman wrote:
Enlightening article. But how are you so sure that with Lagat not entering the WC 1500 he is nevertheless still considered the 2nd place finisher for determining who is in the WC? Anything you read on this subject would only just assume that someone who places in a race is somebody that is pursuing the event at the WC.
This is a good point, and maybe you're right. Maybe as someone mentioned above it counts the top 4 "declared athletes" so if Lagat doesn't "declare" in the 15, that would put Leer in the top 4. This system would make sense and would be a lot better so we could always have a chance of sending 3 athletes.
However even if this is how it SHOULD work I still don't think it's the case. You're right, that article doesn't make it clear what happens if someone doesn't declare, but I just remember hearing a lot about how the US system is very strict about you actually being in the top 4 at US Champs.
I'm going to research this more and try to see what the actual literature says about it. My gut still tells me even if Lagat were to say I'm going in the 5k and Wheating says I'm going in the 8 (this is hypothetical as I know Wheating isn't in the 8) Leer would still be SOL.