Alright, Jumpa, yes it does seem a little unfair that the BYU guys are older, but everyone has the opportunity to take time off to train before college. I do agree though that there should be an age limit rule of when you are allowed to compete in college with the max being maybe 24.
What I think strange is the practice of sending the underclassmen off to the mission. I should think that the mission would be better served by the young man after he graduates, rather than before - as he would have the benefit of more education and greater maturity.
Why are the guys sent so early in their college career?
perspective wrote:
What I think strange is the practice of sending the underclassmen off to the mission. I should think that the mission would be better served by the young man after he graduates, rather than before - as he would have the benefit of more education and greater maturity.
Why are the guys sent so early in their college career?
Because that's the age when most people are out screwing their lives up with drugs alcohol and sex. When you ship them off at that age then they mostly avoid it.
If you guys think age is such a huge benefit then all BYU's sports should be great. I guess their basketball team is pretty goo...oh wait they suck, along with most of the rest of their sports.
I hear they're going to segregate the 2012 Olympics into age groups so everyone gets a chance to win.
If missions are 2 years, then BYU would probably not even have a 25 year old on the team. Normal seniors are 22-23. BYU seniors are 24-25. At least when you are making your argument, do the math! Don't say they have 27 year olds making it sound like they are all that old. And they have freshman and sophomores on their team too who have yet to serve missions...18 19 20 yr olds. Go check their roster online. And their top runner is Miles Batty who is probably kicking your butt and got back from his mission a year ago. He is 22 and faster than most seniors. Ask him if he ran on his mission or came back in shape. I don't think he probably ran 10, 5, or 1 mile a day if he cared about his mission which i bet he did. And their guy from Syracuse who was their 2nd man at Dellinger is 20 i think
Jumpa4598 wrote:
Yup, Galen Rupp is just as bad. He wouldn't have been nearly as dominant if he was a normal 21 or 22 year old senior now would he. Sounds like he certainly gained an advantage with those 2 extra years. And I gurantee you those BYU runners are not just over there helping out poor kids and not running. Sure, maybe they are not getting in 120 mile weeks, but 10 a day for them sure wouldnt be too tough now would it? College sports should be for 17-23 year olds, not some 27 year old dickwad who has trained for several years before heading to college. The BYU team is as big a joke as Galen Rupp's amature collegian status last year. Both are f***ing cheaters, and its sad BYU uses their religoun as a scapegoat.
meant ta quote this clown
I don't think it's avoidance of sex, drugs, and rock and roll that sends them out early. I'm guessing either that it helps to make their remaining years in college more meaningful, having had the world-experience to build theoritical instruction upon or for some other reason that doesn't occur to me. That's why I asked. I'm trying to understand the reason the guys are sent out on missions sooner rather than later.
A few minor points, just FYI:
The NCAA *is* its member colleges. The colleges are the ones that establish/approve all the rules. Don't blame the NCAA itself for the rules and exceptions; blame the colleges. And if you want the rules changed (eliminating exemptions for religious missions), go to the colleges.
The age limitations that are being discussed here do not apply throughout the NCAA. At the DIII level, for instance, you have ten semesters of college attendance (which you can use over the course of decades, I suppose) in which to use four seasons of eligibility for a given sport. It is DI that has the five-year clock.
It is, in fact, the case that *very* few Mormon missionaries get significant physical training during their missions. They're doing other stuff, as other posters have pointed out.
OTOH, it is also unquestionably the case that *some* Mormon athletes benefit enormously from the extra years of physical maturity, despite the break in training. Naturally, we only tend to hear about the performances of this minority who benefit. Many more fall by the wayside (athletically speaking, at least) and never make news.
I think Mormonism is absolute intellectual horsesh!t (as are all other beliefs based on the supernatural), but even I will give the LDS church credit for their organization and sincerity. I think they're sincerely *wrong*, but credit where credit is due...
Not to mention you spend all your time and energy serving and helping people, learning a difficult language, and enjoying a new culture that you generally start to lose interest and focus on things that don't ultimately matter in life(while I love running, God doesn't care what your 5k time was).
Uhh, since when is trying to indoctrinate unsophisticated and unsuspecting residents of (often) a developing country into a ludicrous cult "serving and helping people."
Technically, a female athlete at BYU could start school at 18, go on a 2 year mission, join the military and be deployed for 2 years, have a baby (1 extra year) and then redshirt a year and then start her sophomore year at age 25 and graduate at age 28. However, If her parents were really smart they would have started her in school a year late so that she starts college at 19 and graduates at 29. Now THAT is the way to milk the system.
Great article. Thanks for sharing a few facts.
Females do not serve two years nor do they leave at 19 like the guys.
I honestly take grave offense to this. I spent two years in a country where people honestly had absolutely no interest in our religious message. If you tried to talk about religion, they'd turn off immediately.
You see I had a responsibility to serve the people in the country I was based in(in addition to my cult spreading...), so guess what I did?
I served people. I volunteered helping feed the elderly at food banks, I taught free english classes, I translated for nurses at hospitals...don't be so shortsighted about what Mormon missionaries do. Need help, find yourself in a jam, want your car cleaned, a yard raked...find a Mormon missionary and ask him to do it, and to be honest, they probably will. And they will expect nothing in return, and even if you have no religious interest, they will probably offer to help again in the future. Is this so they can somehow trick you into accepting their cult doctrine...No, it's because they probably just want to help you and feel a love for the people in the area they serve. Rather than putting down over 13 million church members that feel immense happiness and joy within their religion, a group that has done absolutely nothing to harm you or spoken out against you in any way, rather than that; why don't you go help someone in need, or volunteer at a food bank. You'll likely feel better, and feel no need to attack people.
Honestly, have you ever met missionaries? Where are you basing this judgement off of?
And by the way, as stated earlier, we support ourselves through this with our own earnings.
taronheels wrote:
Not to mention you spend all your time and energy serving and helping people, learning a difficult language, and enjoying a new culture that you generally start to lose interest and focus on things that don't ultimately matter in life(while I love running, God doesn't care what your 5k time was).
Uhh, since when is trying to indoctrinate unsophisticated and unsuspecting residents of (often) a developing country into a ludicrous cult "serving and helping people."
-I know a lot of missionaries. A lot of their time is dedicated to service...such as cleaning up yards of the people who can not, painting houses for those who can not and so on...many times this if often to people who are already of the faith. If their only motive was to indoctrinate residents of a developing countries, then why would they spend so much time also serving those who are already of the faith? Do missionaries have a goal of sharing their perspective of their faith in hope that complete strangers might be interested in learning? Absolutely. However, there is a lot more to it than that. Giving up 2 years of your life for a purpose other than yourself is courageous and admirable. And no, they don't get to train. Even 30 miles a week is a huge stretch. Like a poster said earlier, 10 miles a week would be hard/ unheard of.
IWentOnAMission wrote:
There's a shocking amount of misinformation going around here.
Mormon missionaries have a highly regimented schedule that controls when you wake up and go to bed, when you study, how long you eat, where you can go, who you can talk to....you get the picture.
6:30 to 7am is the time allotted for exercise. Now let's keep in mind of couple of things here. Missionaries have to wake up at 6:30am everyday for two years(barring major illness). EVERYDAY. There's no saturday sleep-in session. I can assure you all from experience that you don't exactly jump out of bed at 6:30am every morning under such circumstances. Now, let's say that you actually woke up on time, you are now faced with many other issues. You are probably extremely sore and depleted from walking an average of 6-7 miles the previous day in dress shoes on third world asphalt roads. Sounds easy? Try doing that for one year without ever taking a break and tell me how your body feels. Next you get to deal with the general lack of body energy and power which can be generally attributed to sub-standard foreign diets. I ate meat maybe once every two weeks. Half the time you are scraping by just barely financially and sometimes have to skip meals to save cash(remember missionaries pay for their mission, they recieve no salary).
If you actually are motivated enough to brave and get yourself out the door to run, you now face the BIGGEST obstacle to beneficial running training. Your missionary partner. Missionaries are never allowed to be alone. You always must have your serving partner within sight and hearing at all times(except bathroom obviously). So unless you are serving a mission with another D1 collegiate runner(highly highly unlikely), you can either force your overweight partner to run your pace, or you can run his pace. Which one do you think is most likely to happen?
Remember you have only 30 minutes.
Not to mention you spend all your time and energy serving and helping people, learning a difficult language, and enjoying a new culture that you generally start to lose interest and focus on things that don't ultimately matter in life(while I love running, God doesn't care what your 5k time was).
On my mission I maybe ran 5 times over two years. It was just for fun, and yes, I ran my partners pace, so it was practically walking. But even if I had found myself paired up with some all-american XC runner, I was so malnourished and tired from the enviroment, that I think anything more than 10 miles a week would have killed me.
That's seriously the condition you are looking out. Anyone who thinks taking two years off to serve a mission will give them an unfair advantage in collegiate sports is seriously misinformed about what missionaries actually do. In fact, I think BYU performs well DESPITE their athletes all having served mission. That can only attest to their great coaches and training.
Hope you enjoyed my post. I'm sure someone will be angry and call me a cult-heretic, but I needed to explain the overwhelming information dichotomy in this thread.
Certainly they are not making any strides over those two years but once they return from these missions they are significantly older and stronger. A 26 year old is just so much more developed physically than a 18 year old that is almost silly.
The D1 age limit is 24, Mormon's who go on a mission are granted an exception. So apparently the NCAA thinks that age does matter.
Curious Chris wrote:
IWentOnAMission wrote:There's a shocking amount of misinformation going around here.
Mormon missionaries have a highly regimented schedule that controls when you wake up and go to bed, when you study, how long you eat, where you can go, who you can talk to....you get the picture.
6:30 to 7am is the time allotted for exercise. Now let's keep in mind of couple of things here. Missionaries have to wake up at 6:30am everyday for two years(barring major illness). EVERYDAY. There's no saturday sleep-in session. I can assure you all from experience that you don't exactly jump out of bed at 6:30am every morning under such circumstances. Now, let's say that you actually woke up on time, you are now faced with many other issues. You are probably extremely sore and depleted from walking an average of 6-7 miles the previous day in dress shoes on third world asphalt roads. Sounds easy? Try doing that for one year without ever taking a break and tell me how your body feels. Next you get to deal with the general lack of body energy and power which can be generally attributed to sub-standard foreign diets. I ate meat maybe once every two weeks. Half the time you are scraping by just barely financially and sometimes have to skip meals to save cash(remember missionaries pay for their mission, they recieve no salary).
If you actually are motivated enough to brave and get yourself out the door to run, you now face the BIGGEST obstacle to beneficial running training. Your missionary partner. Missionaries are never allowed to be alone. You always must have your serving partner within sight and hearing at all times(except bathroom obviously). So unless you are serving a mission with another D1 collegiate runner(highly highly unlikely), you can either force your overweight partner to run your pace, or you can run his pace. Which one do you think is most likely to happen?
Remember you have only 30 minutes.
Not to mention you spend all your time and energy serving and helping people, learning a difficult language, and enjoying a new culture that you generally start to lose interest and focus on things that don't ultimately matter in life(while I love running, God doesn't care what your 5k time was).
On my mission I maybe ran 5 times over two years. It was just for fun, and yes, I ran my partners pace, so it was practically walking. But even if I had found myself paired up with some all-american XC runner, I was so malnourished and tired from the enviroment, that I think anything more than 10 miles a week would have killed me.
That's seriously the condition you are looking out. Anyone who thinks taking two years off to serve a mission will give them an unfair advantage in collegiate sports is seriously misinformed about what missionaries actually do. In fact, I think BYU performs well DESPITE their athletes all having served mission. That can only attest to their great coaches and training.
Hope you enjoyed my post. I'm sure someone will be angry and call me a cult-heretic, but I needed to explain the overwhelming information dichotomy in this thread.
Certainly they are not making any strides over those two years but once they return from these missions they are significantly older and stronger. A 26 year old is just so much more developed physically than a 18 year old that is almost silly.
I would agree. What do 26 year olds have to do with this tho? There aren't any on BYU's team if you go and check. And of course they're faster than 18. 18 is freshman age. Do a more legitimate and you find yourself comparing 22-23 and 24-25. Hmm withouth that ridiculous exagguration you just had we find the difference to be one fourth those stupid numbers you threw in there
hey craig, feel free to quote the exact passage of the ncaa rulebook where this "25yr old" rule is stated....oh yeah, you won't...b/c IT DOESN'T EXIST! the only rule is 4yrs in 5. other than that, you can be 60 for all the ncaa cares, just so long as you never went to school full time and/or never competed in your sport of choice after 21yrs. please grow more braincells before posting again thankyou.
craigmac4h wrote:
fewa wrote:anyone take a look at the ncaa rules for age anyway? I'm pretty sure you can't compete if your older than 25 no matter what you do...
Yup, no matter what you do. That's why the NCAA rule book doesn't include any exceptions for religious service, veterans, representing your country in an international competition, or extreme medical situations. Go ahead, look in the rule book- you won't find a single thing in there about those exceptions.
In fact, no one at the NCAA has realized BYU was breaking a rule. Aren't you a good boy for reading the rule book so thoroughly and discovering there are no exceptions!
I am not mormon, but did attend school with them. If BYU has such an advantage, why arent they ranked higher and win more, despite being 2 years older? They are talented runners and have a good coach. Most mormons who do come back and improve drastically were probably talented runners to begin with, so redshirting the year they come back gets them into descent shape where they then progress. If I took 2 years off, then came back, I can assure you I would not be very good. Consistency, I thought, is one of the more important factors to training, if not the most important. Before you go criticizing mormons and their missions, learn more about it instead of talking out of your a$$.
Why doesnt every runner take 2 years off, then come back and train if they can become better? Better yet, why dont they take 2 years off from school and train during those 2 years, then come back?
....same applies to you buster brown. apparently the NCAA doesn't give a horses @$$ how old you are.....
actually... wrote:
The D1 age limit is 24, Mormon's who go on a mission are granted an exception. So apparently the NCAA thinks that age does matter.