Help.. I have an unnatural hate of ultra runners

exactly, they can no longer run fast, no longer do sub 50 quarters or sub 1:55 800's.

So they go out and run a 32:00 10k, or 16:00 5k, big deal. They are so far off the elites.

I hate these 5 and 10k runners thinking they are so fast at the local race, when they arent fast enough anymore for the shorter races.

These people are glorified joggers, post collegiate has beens no where near an elite level. I cant stand them.

You people who hate the harmless activities of others are hilarious. Top notch ultramarathoners are in very good shape, and I don't care how you go about it, you run 150 miles under the time constraints of any 150 mile RACE, and it's an accomplishment.

My former boss, Doug Latimer, 1980 Western States 100 winner, used to race 50 miles at under 6 minute per mile pace in his late 40s. Not an ounce of fat on that running machine of a guy. He never ran a training run of less than 13 miles EVER.

So, your challenge in life might be to race a short race faster. Their challenge in life is to race a LONG race faster, OR run an even longer race.

So weird that people in their own little world can't see how others could enjoy something different. It is a very closed-minded and immature attitude.

Flagpole wrote:

You people who hate the harmless activities of others are hilarious. Top notch ultramarathoners are in very good shape, and I don't care how you go about it, you run 150 miles under the time constraints of any 150 mile RACE, and it's an accomplishment.

no flagpole, it's you old people who spend a significant amount of time posting on boards like this that are hilarious.

that said, the hate is not directed at people who quietly go out and enjoy whatever the hell they want.

it's directed at all of the loudmouth douchebag dumbasses who do ultras, backwards running, unicycle racing, race walking, or local triathlons and think they are national or world-class athletes because they win these stupid races where there are no national or world class athletes.

They are not competing at a high level. they are completing stunts at an uncontested level.

and if you really don't understand that, you are the big moron you make yourself sound like.

superior. wrote:

...the hate is not directed at people who quietly go out and enjoy whatever the hell they want.

it's directed at all of the loudmouth douchebag dumbasses who do ultras, backwards running, unicycle racing, race walking, or local triathlons and think they are national or world-class athletes because they win these stupid races where there are no national or world class athletes.

They are not competing at a high level. they are completing stunts at an uncontested level.

and if you really don't understand that, you are the big moron you make yourself sound like.

And this is opposed to the loudmouth, douchebag, dumbass runner who wins a local 5k in 16:07 and thinks he's all that? The vast majority of the posters here (and the ones who have problems with ultramarathoners) have not participated in national or world-class races against JUST national and world-class talent (myself included). They are recreational runners just like the vast majority of ultramarathoners.

You say that ultramarathons are at an "uncontested level". Well, then so are any of the road races around the country that don't give prize money (and there's a BOAT LOAD of those) along with some that do give prize money.

If some dude (Jurek) runs the Western States 100 and wins in a record time of 15 hours, 36 minutes, then he's the best that has ever done that. The guy who wins the local 5k in 16:07, or hell even 15:07 isn't the best that has done that, yet you would likely say he's a "real" runner or some other crap like that.

Sure people likely CAN challenge a top ultramarathoner like Jurek at a 100 mile race, but if they don't then they don't. It is a race, there are a lot of people involved in ultramarathoning (so it's not like someone decided to say the word "frankly" 10,000 times in a row to be the champion of that), and there are people who regularly finish at or near the top -- they are the best in their sport. To rip on them, or even the people who finish in 30 hours, just is odd, really immature, and misplaced anger.

For someone like Dean K to take his ultramarathoning success and push that out to mean he's the fittest man on the planet, well, that's taking it too far, but within his own sport he's decent (not the best, but decent); a win at Badwater qualifies someone as decent at ultramarathoning.

I'm sure everyone here could beat him and Jurek though too at 100 miles if they just trained for it -- yeah right.

What's most amazing to me is how everybody on this forum acts like they're a 14:00 5k guy. Most of these people are the same 16:00 guys they bash routinely.

I run ultras because I don't enjoy the shorter races. I find more pleasure in grinding through the ever increasing pain of an ultra than I do the short intense pain involved in a shorter race. No better or worse, just different. Like 99.9% of people in the world I'm not going to be elite at either one...just trying to enjoy myself.

50 miles at sub-6 pace in his late 40s?

I'm definitely calling BS on that.

Can't find the sub-five hour 50M and the 5:33:55 at age 43 isn't even worth mentioning. I'm sure it's something you've done many times.

Another night of hate and ignorance on letsrun...

PhillyFan wrote:

50 miles at sub-6 pace in his late 40s?

I'm definitely calling BS on that.

Well, you'd be wrong about that...he did some sort of either flat course or track race and dipped under 5 hours, and he wasn't even good at ultratmarathons until he was in his mid 40s.

I'm looking though and can't find evidence. Best I can find is a mention of him running 5 hours 30 minutes, but he was stellar in the early-mid 80s, and many of those records just aren't found on the interweb.

Get Real wrote:

What's most amazing to me is how everybody on this forum acts like they're a 14:00 5k guy. Most of these people are the same 16:00 guys they bash routinely.

I run ultras because I don't enjoy the shorter races. I find more pleasure in grinding through the ever increasing pain of an ultra than I do the short intense pain involved in a shorter race. No better or worse, just different. Like 99.9% of people in the world I'm not going to be elite at either one...just trying to enjoy myself.

Lots of reasons to enjoy ultras. I've run 2 -- the Jedediah 50 miler in Sacramento, CA and a 40-miler up Mount Diablo and back down. Was training for the Western States 100 and did the 50-miler as a qualifying run but had a partially torn IT band and could not run the WS 100. 50 mile races are definitely different than a marathon, and I agree with you that the kind of pain is different...not better or worse...just different. Doug Latimer used to tell me to prepare for despair, because it always comes in an ultra -- you've just got to run through it. I found him to be correct...I found despair in both my ultras, the 40-miler up the mountain and back down being the more difficult of the two.

The other reason people do ultras is because they are nature lovers, and for them there's nothing better than running 30, 50, 110 miles on a trail. And some people LOVE the training. You've GOT to do the long long runs if you want to run ultras, and lots of people LOVE going for a 4-, a 5-hour run.

I just don't get the bashing of it.

Flagpole wrote:

And this is opposed to the loudmouth, douchebag, dumbass runner who wins a local 5k in 16:07 and thinks he's all that? The vast majority of the posters here (and the ones who have problems with ultramarathoners) have not participated in national or world-class races against JUST national and world-class talent (myself included). They are recreational runners just like the vast majority of ultramarathoners.

stupid response. obviously these guys are just as bad. for the record, i am not a national class runner myself, but have gone slightly over 14 for the 5k.

and the point here is that i still know i suck. i don't make videos about myself and tell my co-workers about my great triumph of plodding through 50 miles of nonsense or...oh my god...get ready...get ready...qualifying for BOSTON!

you're a dork.

weirdo ultrarunner wrote:I'm doing the McNaughton Park 150 this weekend.

How'd that work out for you?

superior. wrote:

stupid response. obviously these guys are just as bad. for the record, i am not a national class runner myself, but have gone slightly over 14 for the 5k.

and the point here is that i still know i suck. i don't make videos about myself and tell my co-workers about my great triumph of plodding through 50 miles of nonsense or...oh my god...get ready...get ready...qualifying for BOSTON!

you're a dork.

1) You are a recreational runner.

2) MOST ultramarathoners are recreational runners.

3) LOTS of runners who run HALF MARATHONS and MARATHONS make videos of themselves and brag to co-workers about finishing those races -- this isn't confined to ultramarathons. And not all ultramarathoners do that anyway.

4) Not all who run 50 miles are "plodding through" The World Record (last I heard) for 50 miles is 4 hours 51 minutes. If you think that's so easy, then you go break it brother.

5) Seems odd to be so upset by the accomplishments of others. We all have our own limitations and abilities, so what might not be an accomplishment for one person is a great accomplishment for another. Perhaps we fail as humans to be proud of our accomplishments, but these failings are not confined to ultramarathon runners.

6) Not sure why in this discussion you decide to rip on people who are proud of their qualifying for Boston. Not everyone can do it, and for many of those who did (not all, as some just have outrageous talent that didn't need to be trained TOO hard), it took hard work, sacrifice and dedication.

I sure hope you aren't proud of any of your pedestrian times. Shouldn't Bekele or Geb look at your "slightly over 14 for 5k" time and wonder why you even bother? Normally I figure the reasons why people run are personal ones and so I can't find fault with any of it, but since you seem so upset by anything other than world class running at distances of the marathon distance or less, then I do wonder what motivates you, because with your own criteria, it seems you should be disgusted with yourself.

I'm not saying that these events are not difficult, but at some point you've entered into a different type of competition.

Would a race from NYC to LA still be considered in the same conversation as T&F? What about people that hike the Appalation Trail?

Flagpole - good job drawing contrasts that demonstrate no one sport trumps all other sports. Each is a competition of different measures.

By the way -- the thread about Sleeping Bear area died a couple weeks ago after I posted a link to favoriterun.com. You should go back and check the link. It was an extremely scenic 18 or 19 mile out and back in the national lakeshore woods from Empire through the Pierce Stocking Drive and back. That run was a perfect example of why it is fun to go out and run trails for several hours.

In addition to the running trail link, I put suggestions on things to do there, too.

End of Hijack, back to ultra bashing.

I have encountered two-bit ultra runners who were overweight but could jog/walk 50 miles. Didn't impress me. However, equally unimpressive is the multitudes of 5 hour marathoners or 30 minute 5K'ers who show up at most races nowadays. Every sport has recreational participants as well as competitive participants. There are also 100 local, non-competitive races for every one race where really talented competitors show up. It's a big world out there and there is room for everyone.

Peace wrote:

weirdo ultrarunner wrote:I'm doing the McNaughton Park 150 this weekend.

How'd that work out for you?

See page 2. Turns out 150 miles on that course was more than I could handle. DNF @ 100 miles w/ DOMS and hallucinations. Ouch.

Only did one wrote:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2935565&page=2

In addition to the running trail link, I put suggestions on things to do there, too.

End of Hijack, back to ultra bashing.

I have encountered two-bit ultra runners who were overweight but could jog/walk 50 miles. Didn't impress me. However, equally unimpressive is the multitudes of 5 hour marathoners or 30 minute 5K'ers who show up at most races nowadays. Every sport has recreational participants as well as competitive participants. There are also 100 local, non-competitive races for every one race where really talented competitors show up. It's a big world out there and there is room for everyone.

Thanks for the additional Sleeping Bear Dunes info.

At least you aren't impressed by other fat runners too -- not just the fat ultrarunners. I will say though that I find fat ultrarunners to be in the very small minority. Most of them, while maybe not given the gift of speed, run so far because they believe it is healthy for them to do so, and so many of them lead a very healthy lifestyle. At least that's the case with the ultra runners I know and was the case when I was running ultras and training with ultra runners -- though that was in California, and the attitude there in general leans more that way, but even in that group, the ultra runners were uber healthy.

I should also say that having seen the field entered in a 150-mile race, I would guess that the average entrant is actually much fitter and much faster than the average runner, at any distance, 5k to infinity. Perhaps the majority of the field races shorter distances as well, 5k-marathon. All for the simple fact that the average person who attempts something like that runs between 60-140 mpw, and most do so at a faster pace than the "average" middle-of-the-pack 5k runner or marathoner (who runs, maybe 20 or 30 miles per week.) There may not be as many at the high end (but fewer at the low end as well), but the average ultrarunner is much fitter than the average 5k runner. That's my impression, anyway.

weirdo wrote:

I should also say that having seen the field entered in a 150-mile race, I would guess that the average entrant is actually much fitter and much faster than the average runner, at any distance, 5k to infinity. Perhaps the majority of the field races shorter distances as well, 5k-marathon. All for the simple fact that the average person who attempts something like that runs between 60-140 mpw, and most do so at a faster pace than the "average" middle-of-the-pack 5k runner or marathoner (who runs, maybe 20 or 30 miles per week.) There may not be as many at the high end (but fewer at the low end as well), but the average ultrarunner is much fitter than the average 5k runner. That's my impression, anyway.

I agree with your assessment.