if high mileage is so important, how are elite triathletes running 30 low?

triathletes can run alot faster then most people give them credit for, but 30min 10km is still 2 - 3 minutes from world class.

tim don has run 3.46 for 1500m and 8.04 for 3k on TRACK.

greg welch was 28.57 for 10k on the track, pretty sure it was at the zatopek classic in oz.

simon whitfield ran 30.50 at the sydney olympics, which would definately be accurate, it is the olympics after all and it's not hard to accurately measure 10km.

paul amey went 64 minutes for a half marathon in new zealand some years back.

jarrod shoemaker is 14.09 for 5km on track and hunter kemper was 14.30ish for 5km in college.

bevan docherty and kris gemmell ran 14.30ish at the new zealand 5000m champs a few years back.

If Whitfield ran 30:50 at the Olymics after swimming and biking then surely he should be able to break 30mins fresh? So it should be easy for you to provide a link to the results where he has done it in a CERTIFIED 10km road race. As for the others, can you provid links for those? 5km and 1/2 marathon times don't mean anything. I know a guy who has run 13:30's for 5km and 28's for 10k but didn't break 2:30 for the marathon. Does that mean we should still call him a 2:15 guy? Surely he should be able to break 2:15 with that kind of speed? Of course it doesn't. So from the looks of your list there is so far 1 guy who you claim has run 28:57 for 10k on the track. Do you have a link for that? Seems more like the exception to me rather than the general.

So has Mr. Lessing broken 30mins for 10km in a CERTIFIED 10km road race? Sub 14mins for 5km is great but it is still not proof that the top tri guys can go out and run sub 30mins at will.

I've trained with and raced Whitfield quite a few times, and he's definitely worth 30 flat or better. He tends to peak for triathlons, not surprisingly. 30 flat isn't all that great for a professional athlete, though. It may be good around here, but I don't believe for a second that triathletes are at the same level as runners on a global scale. Not even close. It's a sport for rich white kids.

I never said whitfield has broken 30min for 10km...but as you said 30.50 after swimming and biking would suggest he probably could.

here are some links..

http://www.athletics.org.nz/nr120304.html

shows docherty and gemmell's 5km

heres a link to don running 8.16 for 3k. i cant be bothered searching for his other results, but check his website for his PBs.

http://www.britishmilersclub.com/results/2003/wythenshawe_030531.htm

google the other guys if you want more results, it's not hard to find.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying 5kms and 1/2 marathons mean nothing...my point I was trying to make is there are triathletes who can run decent times and if there are guys running 14.30s it isn't unreasonable to think they could run low 30 minutes.

Why are you trying to prove they couldn't run low 30mins? they are good athletes but far from world class in running.

why do you assume that if someone can break 30 in a 10k, he must have jumped in a local 10k and done it? these guys are professional triathletes and, contrary to what a lot of people on these boards think, would get zero benefit, other than winning $100, from running in a local 10k. i know this may be difficult to comprehend, but is it that shocking to you that maybe they have never done it? i am sure that they also have not done cycling time trials as well.

"certified" for a road race doesn't mean all that much as well. the new york road runners races routinely are the wrong distance and some of the higher profile mismarked "certified" national races were the austin half and the marathon in chicago (not the main one). i agree that A LOT of tris are the wrong distance. the nyc tri, which has served as the national championship in the past, usually is off by a lot (last year the 10k was 6 miles). however, if any tri is going to be the right distance, it would be the olympic tri (although it wouldn't surprice me if it were the wrong distance).

i still find it amusing that the guys bashing the elite triathletes on this thread as being "bad" runners would get crushed by any of these guys if they showed up to their local 10ks. you should be thankful that they don't because what would you say when a guy in a man bra beats you by 5 minutes in a 10k?

So this may be SLIGHTLY irrelevant becase I only read halfway through the second page, however, here it goes:

The main thing being talked about here is the fact that triathletes run lower mileage, yet can still accomplish 10k times faster than most of letsrunners. Well, I may be answering an answered question, but that is simply because of the fact (touched on by a few others) that cycling mileage and swimming yardage is so high. One must remember that cycling, if done correctly (as prooven by a recent study which I cannot find, but e-mail me if you want me to dig it up) can give your body a good rest from the pounding, INCREACE aerobic capacity, and help greatly with turnover. How? Because when cycling most people (runners) tend to push harder since they think it is not as good as running for development, thus increasing their heart rate. I can attest to this personally. I thought that cycling would hinder my development, or, at most, hinder the loss of aerobic capacity. So after a while on the bike (I had stress fractures in early track season) I borrowed a HRM from work and wore it when I cycled (with expro triathlete Bob "Spam Man" Brubaker)(that last parentheseese (sp) was just to show that a person to push you is good). What I saw is that my HR was, after about 10 minutes of cycling, in the high mid 140s, which I maintained for most of the rides of longer duration (3 ish hours), and in the high 140s for the shorter ones (2 ish hours). Thats about what my HR is for my ususal training days, only the duration was longer.

So yes, elite triathlets can get away way that, the only issue is that they do incorporate like 40 mpw of running to ensure that they keep their "running legs". Other wise the muscles used for running will athrophy (not much but enough to make a marathon pretty sh*tty).

If you take a look at the results you will see the race lied. They ran 6 miles. The 28:46 for 6 is still good but comes to about 29:56, which again I say is very good especially after 2 other legs even if they are not long. As someone else pointed out, the winner would have had to run 4:36 pace for 10k. So your statement is true if you say "some guys are sub 30 and some guys are sub 29 6 milers."

I don't need to prove that they haven't run low 30mins for a certified 10k course. The responsibility is on you guys that claim they can run low 30mins for 10k. I'm asking you to back up your claims with some proof that so far no one has. I know several guys who have run in the 14:30's and haven't broken 30 for 10k so 5k times mean nothing. A 3k time means even less. Some good times, yes. Are they sub 30min 10k runners? Not until they actually do it on a certified 10k course they aren't.The FACT remains that Whitfield has never even come close to breaking 30mins for a certified 10k. Great athlete, you bet. Sub 30min 10k runner, not so far in the real world. I'm not sure he's ever broken 31mins in a certified 10k road race. If you believe triathletes are running low 30mins at the end of a triathlete then I have some nice property to sell you down in New Orleans.

the facts wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by saying 5kms and 1/2 marathons mean nothing...my point I was trying to make is there are triathletes who can run decent times and if there are guys running 14.30s it isn't unreasonable to think they could run low 30 minutes.

Why are you trying to prove they couldn't run low 30mins? they are good athletes but far from world class in running.

The responsibility is on you guys that claim they can run low 30mins for 10k. I'm asking you to back up your claims with some proof that so far no one has.

His point is that these guys are damn good runners. He doesn't need to prove that they ran sub 30 to make that point. A 5k time in the mid 14s is as good as a sub 30:30 10k time. Because they are triathletes, they are not going to go out and run super fast track or road races over every distance when they are in peak shape.

BTW, it is much easier to predict a 10k time from a 5k time than it is to predict a marathon off a 10k or 5k, so your 2:15 example is a silly diversion.

Just some more tri-geek running info:

Rasmus Henning, elite Danish olympic dist triathlete ran just a touch over 30 during the nat'l champs a few weeks back.. a race he wasn't peaking for:

article:

[01-04-2006]

[Rasmus Danish running champion over 10km!]

Today I surprised the Danish running elite by taking the title in the 10km road race in Copenhagen. Coming into the race I didn’t think about titles or medals, only about having a solid test run and maybe running a good time. Although I have several times run faster splits in triathlon races, my personal best was 31.29 from a road race back in 2001. Today I clocked a solid 30.17 without pushing it to the limit on the final 2km. I didn’t think I was able to break the 30min barrier, so there was no reason to push it. I have suffered from some minor injuries since my MTB-adventure 2 weeks ago and was even in doubt whether to start at all today

He also just won the St. Anthony's Triathlon today in Florida, whooping up on a couple of the best the US has to offer in Hunter Kemper and Andy Potts. Results are here:

elflord wrote:His point is that these guys are damn good runners. He doesn't need to prove that they ran sub 30 to make that point. A 5k time in the mid 14s is as good as a sub 30:30 10k time. Because they are triathletes, they are not going to go out and run super fast track or road races over every distance when they are in peak shape.

BTW, it is much easier to predict a 10k time from a 5k time than it is to predict a marathon off a 10k or 5k, so your 2:15 example is a silly diversion.

And I agree partially, they are damn good athletes but still not 30min 10k runners. If you guys make a claim that Triathletes can run low 30min 10k's (as is the title of the thread) and a bunch of you come on here and agree, then it is your responsibility to back up that claim when someone asks you for proof. Otherwise your claim means nothing.

My 2:15 marathon example is no more silly than claiming that a bunch of tri athletes are 30min 10k runners because they run 30mins for their short 10k's at the end of a triathalon. Neither claim is true despite what you or I may argue.

I see above that someone has finally posted one example of a triathlete breaking 31mins for a legitimate 10k. So far that's 1 triathlete who has run low 30mins for 10k. As I said before, hardly the general rule. More like the exception.

Ok, here's another example, not trying to be a smartass, but there are more examples, I'm just too lazy to go find more... This was just another that came to mind.

Remember, these 10ks are run without any taper/focus.

Last year's Beach to Beacon 10k in Maine:

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17 GREG BENNETT AUSTRALIA Male (30-34) 30:32.5 4 256 30:32.5

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Greg was in the area for a tri the weekend before in Canada.

Okay, that's 2 sub 31 10k runners so far. You're not being a smartass at all by providing proof that I asked for.

JustAGigilo wrote:

Ok, here's another example, not trying to be a smartass, but there are more examples, I'm just too lazy to go find more... This was just another that came to mind.

Remember, these 10ks are run without any taper/focus.

Last year's Beach to Beacon 10k in Maine:

----

17 GREG BENNETT AUSTRALIA Male (30-34) 30:32.5 4 256 30:32.5

----

Greg was in the area for a tri the weekend before in Canada.

Trying to find a triathlete who has broken 31:00 for 10k is like trying to compare middle distance runners to marathoners. Do guys who focus on the marathon run 5k races? Sure. Do they run them fast? No. Could they if they trained for it? Probably. When was the last time Sell ran a 5k? Does it matter? Nope.

Alan

Alright, one last one before I get a life...

Hunter Kemper a few months before he won his first National Triathlon championship, his senior year at Wake Forest.. don't know if this counts or not.

______

Deacons Compete at ACC Outdoor Track & Field Championships

Kraus and Swanson win events in meet's first day

April 17, 1998

ORLANDO, FL.

Senior Hunter Kemper recorded a second place finish in the 10,000 meter run with a time of 30:47.23.

_______

I deleted out some of the other info.

Umm, no they're not... wrote:

The FACT remains that Whitfield has never even come close to breaking 30mins for a certified 10k. Great athlete, you bet. Sub 30min 10k runner, not so far in the real world. I'm not sure he's ever broken 31mins in a certified 10k road race.

Whitfield - sub 31min from 2003

30:59 Simon Whitfield 27-Apr Times Colonist, Victoria

From the Took about 15sec to find with google. I'm sure a thorough search would turn up many more elite triathletes with sub 31min to low 30min 10K times or similar running performances in other distance events - infact many have already been presented here.

Link:

Please post the reference.

I would be careful with using "prove" when it comes to one peer reviewed paper as well.