........PSAC.......

I have never been a fan of ACU and after last year when the NCAA found that they had violated many of their laws, it's clear they have a lot of BS going on there.

I agree with Shizzy 100% on this one

also I vote Ralph as a convicted cheat! He brings a bad image to the conference and poorly represents his school. I would love to be invited to watch the webcam show of him and miss Maddy Outmann. I wonder what she see's in a a set of old wrinkly balls

but the best Edinboro team was all local.

you could've taken a radius of 180 miles and formed a circle around the homes of all members of that team.

Uriel was not across the pond.

I just read Ralph Whites bio on the IUP website, damn this guys has been passed around more then the Bong at Phelps birthday party. He didn't even stay at the programs for very long. He has been at 7 programs in around 30 years. Does anybody know him personally? Please enlighten me on why a guy with credentials like his gets let go at all of these programs. He has coached 15 olympians and he is coaching at IUP? R u serious? lol I saw he was also the top Assistance Coach at Clemson, is there such an award? Or did he assign that possition to himself? It says he coached over 300 All-Americans's. Now does it count if he was the sprints coach and the jav thrower won nationals? I have a feeling that he is piggybacking a lot of All-americans off of other coaches success and getting the recognition for it.

Fair point on across the pond with regards to Uriel, but not born in the US, which was my point. And, you are corerct, I should've added that Edinboro was definitely not all foreign talent. -- Luil Grahm-- Mike Platt-- Chris Rauber-- Travis Kuhl-- Jeff BarkerAll Americans that are PSAC XC Champs as well (and I know I missed a few guys from the 70's such as Keith(?) Foley). And, totally agree about that "best" team being a bunch of local yokels...as I've said many times before on this site, it was that group Platt mentions that I looked up to when I was just getting into running (now that I'm older, it's quite scary given some of the "characters" on that squad :)). Hoovis

mplatt wrote:

but the best Edinboro team was all local.

you could've taken a radius of 180 miles and formed a circle around the homes of all members of that team.

Uriel was not across the pond.

If you look around, a fair number of Africans turn up at small colleges. Some do very well (national individual D3 champions at Widener and Hamilton just in the past couple of years), some don't. When I ran at a D3 college in NJ a while back, we got excited because our coach had a guy coming in from Kenya. But it turned out he wasn't from the Rift Valley but from downtown Nairobi. He started out running in the mid-17s for 5k, but by the time he graduated he was a solid fifth or sixth man in XC. And yes, as a foreign student there was non-athletic scholarship money available for him. That's not uncommon at all. Schools want diversity, as they should. He added a lot to the program, more as a person than an athlete.

White was probably on programs that had All-American's. And SID's take plenty of editorial liberty in creating a resume for a coach, so that a recruit like Abel Kiprop feels good coming to America to run for a coach who has been in the same town as Olympian's and run at meets with All-American's.

to former IUP trackster: agreed...

and once again, noone has actually said WHY it is bad to recruit foreign athletes????????????

we heard who IUP and the Boro got for recruits. How about some of the other schools? Update your team if you know.

Psh wrote:

to former IUP trackster: agreed...

and once again, noone has actually said WHY it is bad to recruit foreign athletes????????????

The Pennsylvania System of Higher Education was founded in order to provide Pennsylvania residents a chance, that they might not otherwise have, to attend college. According to their website (http://www.passhe.edu/Pages/default.aspx) their mission is to "increase the intellectual wealth of the Commonwealth". By recruiting foreign athletes solely for athletics, not only are they occupying spots in the universities that could otherwise be taken by PA residents, but they are perverting the mission statement of the PASSHE. They are turning what is otherwise an academic endeavor into an athletic one. Now, this is not to say that foreign athletes participating in the PSAC should be banned altogether, because later in the PASSHE mission statement they say they also want "to prepare students at all levels for personal and professional success in their lives, and to contribute to the economic, social, and cultural development of Pennsylvania’s communities, the Commonwealth, and the nation."

That being said, the AMOUNT of foreign athletes that IUP has been recruiting is call for speculation. Look at the number of foreign athletes before and after the new coaching regime. There is a clear increase. This brings about the point (that undoubtedly will be argued) that the new coaches are more worried about looking much better than the old coaches, that they are willing to throw out the mission of the PASSHE in order to do so.

College is an academic endeavor, no matter what way you look at it (except if your a divison I football/basketball athlete, in which case it's pretty much just the minor leagues).

Do lots of schools have foreign athletes? Yes

Is IUP within NCAA rules? Yes

Will this make the PSAC more competive? Most Likely

I don't understand why anyone would complain. For years psac schools have recruited foreign athletes from places like Europe and Asia. Why the sudden uproar over a few Kenyans? Could it be that Kenya produces some of the best runners in the world, therefore, American born runners fear them. If so, get over it and go run some 100 mile weeks so that you might compete with them. Anyways the psac gets their butts kicked by foreign athletes at nationals every year. Maybe if you have to compete against more of them in the conference you can become more competitive at the national level? Just some thoughts.

Oh, Please..Don\'t even try and tell me this is what was going through your/other peoples mind when they first objected to the IUP/Kenyans scandal

[quote]Psh wrote:

Oh, Please..

Don't even try and tell me this is what was going through your/other peoples mind when they first objected to the IUP/Kenyans scandal

A couple of pages back, you were defending IUP and their recruiting methods. Now you're calling it a scandal? And regardless of whether or not it is the first thing that went through my/others mind is irrelevant. You asked why it is bad to recruit foreign athletes, and I gave a reason.

i dont care who is gettin who or wher they from.. esu is ganna win indoor and outdoor.. we got the best fresh class commin plus everyone is back ...

aight yo i see u esu yall had a good yr .. better get some distance but yall deff can win .. sprint power house school tho...

What's this about? Cheat in what way?

recruits wrote:

we heard who IUP and the Boro got for recruits. How about some of the other schools? Update your team if you know.

I hear Ship is getting a guy from the midwest Iowa or Kansas who is walking on and has run 9:26. I do not think the coaches know about him. Anyone know anything?

We would def love to have a 9:26 walk on...... I havent heard anything about the guy yet though, Is he planning on coming this year?

Ship Recruits this year:

Matt Gillette 9:19 2-mile, 4:20 mile, 15:40 5k, 19th at States

Kevin Borillo 9:23 2-mile, 15:42 5k

Kyle Hurston 9:26 2-mile, 4:16 mile, 15:48 5k, 18th at States

John Reilly 9:38 2-mile, 15:58 5k, 23rd at States

This is going back to the mission statement thing. What if a PSAC school had a ton of out of state guys, but they weren't foreign born or anything.

Didn't Edinboro have mostly Ohio guys on the team for years? I'm pretty sure they were all white dudes born and raised in Ohio. Is that against this argument?