........PSAC.......

I mean there are a couple standout runners that the PSAC has recruited like Jeff Weiss or Ben Hahn. But the majority of the conference are 10:00-10:20 high school 3200 guys who come to college, work hard, and get better. Give those 3 Kenyans to Watts or Spence and you would have yourself the next Harding or Abilene Christian, but they probably won't even be that good. IUP will be mediocre this year as usual. No one in the conference is scared of IUP because they got a couple Kenyans. Bring it on.

We Shall

You must be new to the conference. IUP is NOT the lowest in scholarship. Bloom, Mansfield and Millersville are all lower.

"But the majority of the conference are 10:00-10:20 high school 3200 guys"

I beg to differ on this one. If you look at most of the good kids that Edinboro, Ship and LHU have they are not 10:00 3200 runners. Just looking at what Ship has listed on Penn track shows that over the past 2 years they have gotten at least a full team of guys that have run 9:45 and better with a handful that have run around 9:20. Edinboro and LHU are not different. Of course all of those program have guys that were 10 minute guys but the ones driving the programs were not.

Oh and another poster says the IUP ranks last in scholarship. Not even close obviously as can be seen from bringing in foreign athletes. Take a look at Cal, Cheyney and Millersville to see who rank at the bottom as far as scholarship for men. I don't think the PSAC as a whole does very well here but I would guess that the top teams year in and year out also have the most money in their programs. Although nobody compares to schools like Adams or Abeliene who are living in a different world financially.

Doesn't LHU have Kenyan woman listed on their team too. I agree with the poster that said you go for best recruits you can afford. Who knows what these Kenyan's will bring to the table. My prediction is that 2 out of the 3 are very good and the 3rd is solid. IUP looks like they could be pretty good if they have a 4th and 5th guy really step up.

Rough Predictions

1. LHU

2. Edinboro

3. Ship

4. IUP

5. not sure what happens here last year 5-10 were pretty close...probably going to be the same this year.

The PSAC is certainly getting better, I agree with what the above poster said about the 10 flat high school guys.

As far as IUP goes I don't see them doing too much better then last year. They their top two and are getting 3 kenyans, which is absurd. So they might do just a little better then last year but I don't see them doing any better then 5.

Slippery Rock lost wiess and reagan so they're pretty effd. Cal U lost Chris Clark so don't see them doing too much this year, although give them a few years their coach is legit.

The lockhaven guys are sick, and edinboro somehow always pulls something out of their ass.

It'll be more like (for the men)

1. LHU

2. Edinboro

3. Ship

4. Bloomsburg

5. IUP

6. East Stroudsburg

7. Cal/Millersville

Oh yeah and IUP would be f***ed with a capital F without the kenyans, as they would only have 10 guys on their roster. But I guess you do what you have to...

Let's be real here guys, IUP will dominate because of the out of this world senior (singular) leadership that we're going to have this year.

and kenyans run good

We used to be low on the scholarship list, but with the additional money that we are getting this year we are now up there with the the Rock and Ship, we are just making better use of the money then the rest of the conference.

Sounds like you guys are just jealous, if you want to beat us, get your coaches to recruit better. Then maybe you guys will win again!

i dunno who these Kenyans are but just b/c they are kenyan doesn't mean they are good. I've beatin plenty of african that sucked and went to small schools and i suck. If they are coming to iup more than likely they are your idea of "kenyans." That doens't mean they cant add depth to a IUP team that has a few good front runners but by all means dont get all fussy because they have some "kenyans"

Why not use the additional scholarship money to develop American runners? Instead you take the easy way out and buy some foreign dudes.

For what it is worth here is my two cents. If IUP can get Kenyan's then more power to them. We would if we could but we do not have the contacts that the IUP coach has. The Kenyan's IUP are getting are not the high end. I spoke with their coach and the three who are coming (assuming they can get their visa's in time) are a little above average. One runs low 15's one middle to high 15's and the other ran the 800 in 1:56. They may get better as they come from good blood lines and these three have done little training.

IUP got them because the coach ask two of his former athletes, Sammy Koskei (1:43 - 3:33) and Abdi Bile (1:43 - 3:30 also World Champion in mid 80's) to help out. Two of the three are related to Sammy. Sammy and Abdi are paying for their scholarships not IUP. What other coach in PSAC would not take them? I think it was too late in the year to get the "good" ones.

IUP's problem is that they do not have anyone else. These three are good 4-6 runners. I think it is safe to presume that next year IUP will have top runners and be a factor. Just not this year.

Boro incoming freshman:

Time will tell, but they have Scott Anderson (Nike National Qualifier, 9.03 3200, 4.13 mile), Bryan Baumgartner (9.20's 3200), another 9.30 steepler from NY.

The way Watts developes athletes - the team could be good.

Wow, those are some pretty legit recruits for Edinboro. They will definitely make an impact, and with a 9:03 guy there, that will make a huge difference! Especially since Edinboro really isn't losing anybody besides Nick Hankins. Watts will have himself quite the team this year and for years to ocme.

As for the IUP Kenyan situation, I don't know much about it.. I apologize for whoever it is talking smack on here, because it's obviously not someone from my team(at least any of the distance runners). Havko and I are the only upperclassmen, and I don't even think any of the underclassmen know about this site.

The way I look at it, the Kenyans are irrelevant to me as of now. Me and the rest of my teammates were unaware of the Kenyans coming in until the roster was posted, so our training was still the same. We're going to be a young team and we have a lot of losses to make up for, and we're going to make the best of what we have, Kenyans or not. If they come in and are good, then great, our team will be a little better. But by no means will they put us on the level of teams such as Ship, Edinboro, or Lock Haven. We're just hoping to finish as high as we did last year, and that in it of itself should be a task as the conference keeps getting better.

Its good to see some humility and sportsmanship on this board, a rare thing.

Looks like the conference is getting more competitive, which is awesome.

Hope everyone's training is going well.

I think people's frustrations lie in the fact that the conference coach's work hard to recruit athletes, develop into quality runners, and then help to advance their teams, but then some coach just buys a few Kenyan's and then boom it's sorta over (at least it seems like it). Maybe they'll get into drinking like Henry Rono.

Shizzy, I can understand where you are coming from. I really do respect how all of the PSAC schools have built their teams off of some of PA's top talent. It's a little bit of a bummer to see my team "sell out" and recruit some Kenyans, but who knows what kind of impact they will have?

No matter what that impact may be, me and the rest of my team are going to work hard to do our best. Heck, maybe if we work hard enough, we can make it so the Kenyans just fade into the pack. Only time will tell, I suppose. Until then I'm going to keep training, and I hope you all do the same. It's going to be a great season in the PSAC! Just a little over a month 'til the season starts and I can't wait!

I guessed you missed some earlier postings, shiz. Nobody 'bought' these Kenyans. IUP is not forking over the money for them, relatives are.

Your post has put you into the category already mentioned on here: jealousy. Take the advice (again, already referenced) previously typed by someone else and forget about the talk, and train!

What if you were in Albeline Christian's conference? It sounds to me like you would have given up, instead of motivating yourself more to prepare for races.

You go to Ship, correct? Shouldn't you be proud of the program you come from? Who cares if another school 'bought' some foreign guys. If you're racing against them, then run your legs and not your mouth off.

When you look back on your college career, you should be able to recall and be proud of how you progressed as a runner. Hopefully you don't say to yourself, 'well, one year I would've done great if some dumb team didn't cheat and buy foreigners.' You should say, 'I raced my damndest to beat those suckers.'

Wake up. Do what ya gotta do during the day. Train. Don't get on dumb message boards and let it get the best of you.

Best of luck this season.

Former PSAC dude

[quote]DonKeyman wrote:

Shizzy, I can understand where you are coming from. I really do respect how all of the PSAC schools have built their teams off of some of PA's top talent. It's a little bit of a bummer to see my team "sell out" and recruit some Kenyans, but who knows what kind of impact they will have?

WTF. You are disappointed that you team would "sell out." Then let us just do what we have been doing for year because that has worked so well. When was our last individual champion or team championship? NEVER! A school is suppose to get the best athletes available. Getting guys who run 10 min is not the best. Obviously IUP does not have the money to get the really good ones. My $50 only goes so far.

"Sell out". Distance runners were weird when I was there and I guess it has not changed. If I was your coach I would cut your ass. Be proud of your school and program or quit. We need the help wherever they are from.

Their relatives are not paying there way, the school is! They are getting scholarships for being foreighn students through the school, it is not all athletic scholarship but it is being funded by the school. I know this for a fact. Talk to the coach or AD and ask why the sudden change in the stance on cross country and why they are putting more money into the program then in previous times.They want to be the best athletic school in the conference and in order to do that they must excel at cross country and track. So the school is throwing a lot more money into the cross country program so they can get more points towards the Dixon Trophy! They want to be the best, they aren't doing a very good job at recruiting talented local distance runners that can come in right away and win so the easy way to do it is become a program like Abiliene Christian. The three guys they are bringing in are not 15 min 5k guys either, they are mid 14's at 5k and high 30's at 10k at altitude. So once you bring them out of the mountains and put them on a track you are looking at 3 guys that can dominate cross country and on the track from 1500 to 10k. Its a quick easy way to pick up 50+ pts in 3 guys. once they add another 3 guys next year they will be set...