Here's a different take on this:
The two greatest players in NBA history were Wilt Chmaberlain and Rick Barry. They were the only two superstars who didn't get any help from the referees.
Here's a different take on this:
The two greatest players in NBA history were Wilt Chmaberlain and Rick Barry. They were the only two superstars who didn't get any help from the referees.
How did Jerry West get help from referees? How did Kareem get help from referees?
Steve Martin wrote:
You could also mention that Bird kept Magic from winning more titles, and Magic kept Bird from winning more titles. If either were not in the league, the other would likely have won 3 or 4 more titles.
Really? How is that possible?
Bird's Celtics beat Magic's Lakers once in the finals. Magic's Lakers beat Bird's Celtics twice.
This would seem to suggest that if Bird were not in the league Magic would have won at most one more title. Likewise, without Magic Bird may have won two more, tops.
maybe in the old NBA. i.e. pre-2000. the new NBA has personal conditioning and real-time super-computer tracking of players. i doubt if LB could even start in today's NBA.
LB not a starter today wrote:
maybe in the old NBA. i.e. pre-2000. the new NBA has personal conditioning and real-time super-computer tracking of players. i doubt if LB could even start in today's NBA.
Lame. Really lame.
0/10
maybe in the old NBA. i.e. pre-2000. the new NBA has personal conditioning and real-time super-computer tracking of players. i doubt if LB could even start in today's NBA.
Bird would be a starter in Italy today but not in the NBA.
Not one single player from the pre-2000 - with the exception of Michael Jordan - could make today's NBA.
Well, maybe as bucket boys they could.
And the bucket boys could not even be towel boys nowadays, things have evolved so much.
No, he was a good player but no where near "The Greatest". That title belongs to Air Jordan. Besides, Magic Johnson destroyed Bird several times.
Jordan was o.k. since he played in during expansion. he wouldn't be a super star during Bird's prime years. With today's condtioning, Jordan wouldn't be playing in the NBA, he'd be in China or Spain playing. Blake would smack that darkie down.
Meh... This post you made started out ok. But your punchline was a little too silly.
Some folks are delusional regarding the quality of the NBA today and 'what it would take' to play in it. Kevin Love is by no means a special athlete and he's tearing the NBA up right now. At the combine, he basically measured out at about 6'8 1/2" and he's getting 13-14 rebounds per night without being a jumping jack. It's called SKILLS.
There isn't a single player in the NBA today with exceptional back to the basket post skills. Dwight Howard, who is limited offensively, is the best center. Olajuwon would humiliate any center in the NBA today.
These 'great' players of today's NBA look like they're skipping on a hopscotch board as they take 3-4 steps then skip and hop. If they didn't make 'Ball Handling for Dummies' the new standard in the NBA today, I doubt many of these guys could score.
Steve Martin wrote:
You could also mention that Bird kept Magic from winning more titles, and Magic kept Bird from winning more titles. If either were not in the league, the other would likely have won 3 or 4 more titles.
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It might be more accurate to say that IF the Sixers, Celtics and Lakers didn't have to worry about each other in the 1980s, that Dr. J could have titles in 1980, 81, 82, 83, maybe 84?... OR Bird could have titles in 1980, 81, 83, 84, 85, 86 & 87... OR Magic could have titles in 80, 82, 83, 84, 85, 87 & 88.
Long-Time NBA Follower wrote:
Here's a different take on this:
The two greatest players in NBA history were Wilt Chmaberlain and Rick Barry. They were the only two superstars who didn't get any help from the referees.
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Barry came out of the womb whining. He probably made his own bed with the refs, like Laimbeer did (you could pretty much assault Laimbeer and the refs couldn't care less because they were tired of his act). As for Wilt, I don't think he ever fouled out so the refs couldn't have been too bad to him.
The Answer My Friend wrote:
Kareem won an NBA title with a Milwaukee Bucks squad that hardly had an All-Star lineup (except for Oscar Robertson, who was winding down his career). Rule changes were made to limit Kareem's overwhelming dominance. He's on a level very far above Hakeem.
Kareem, Wilt and Russell caused rule changes because they were too dominant, either in the NCAA or NBA. There's a certain amount of respect and acknowledgement that has to come with that.
gamecock wrote:
People keep posting how both Bird and Magic said that MJ was the best. Both also said on occasion how good the other guy was. But they are also, to a certain extent, being polite. How would it look if either said, "The best? Yeah, that's me." Deep in their heart of hearts, both Magic and Bird probably know that if they had the option with a second to play of taking the last shot or giving it up to Michael, they'd put it up.
That said, Jordan WOULD answer, "Yes, I'm the best."
I'd like to see a list of 'who said who was the greatest'. Jordan at his HOF induction would NOT say he was the greatest. They asked him. He answered by complimenting many, many players that came before him. Larry Bird used to say that Moses Malone was the toughest player he had to play. Then after the Lakers beat him in either 1985 or 1987, he said that Magic was the best. Larry Bird was asked about MJ after the 63 point playoff game and Bird said 'that wasn't Michael Jordan, that was GOD disguised as Michael Jordan'---but that was more of a comment Jordan's performance in that GAME, not MJ's standing among the all-time greats. I imagine if Bird was there for Kobe's 81 points, he would have said that Kobe was GOD that day. The last time I ever saw Bird asked a G.O.A.T. question, he smiled and said: 'there are 2'. He never expanded on it. Did he mean Magic and MJ? Russell & Wilt? MJ and Wilt? MJ & Russell? Magic & Russell? Magic & Wilt? HIM and anyone of those guys? No one ever asked. Magic used to say that Larry Bird was the only player who ever scared him. More recently, he's credited with saying that MJ is above everyone else. But then Magic also claimed thay KOBE was the greatest Laker EVER. So, is Magic just 'Captian Happy-Go-Lucky', happy that he's alive, gushing with praise for everyone else? I dunno. Ted Williams used to say that if the Red Sox had Phil Rizzuto as their SS, that THEY would have all of the World Series titles, not the Yankees. I mean, it's TED WILLIAMS talking. But honestly, unless Rizzuto could PITCH 3xs per week, Ted Williams' comment has to be scrutinized.
I think smart ex-players know that it just comes off as petty if they said 'yeah, I'm the best ever'.
A retired Chamberlain and a retired Jim Brown looked petty and childish complaining about their legacies when they did--------and those 2 might have been the best players ever in their respective sports... yet they were criticized for acting like babies with some of their post playing comments. Jordan, Magic, Bird----they're too smart to want any of that. But you just know that when they are brushing their teeth in the morning, that they are telling themselves they were the man.
ShabaDoo wrote:
Steve Martin wrote:
You could also mention that Bird kept Magic from winning more titles, and Magic kept Bird from winning more titles. If either were not in the league, the other would likely have won 3 or 4 more titles.
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It might be more accurate to say that IF the Sixers, Celtics and Lakers didn't have to worry about each other in the 1980s, that Dr. J could have titles in 1980, 81, 82, 83, maybe 84?... OR Bird could have titles in 1980, 81, 83, 84, 85, 86 & 87... OR Magic could have titles in 80, 82, 83, 84, 85, 87 & 88.
Basically, that was my point. The league had three great teams then, but not so much when Jordan played. I may have exaggerated a little, but that would be two more for Bird, or one more for Magic. Take that dominant Sixers team (that truly was stacked) out of the equation, and you can add at least one to them as well.
NBA Fan wrote:
Jordan was o.k. since he played in during expansion. he wouldn't be a super star during Bird's prime years.
That depends on one's definition of 'super star'. Statistically, from a personal standpoint, Jordan certainly looked like a super star.
The portion of Bird's prime that coincided with Jordan's career (1984-85 through 1987-88) yield these numbers:
Jordan Bird
Games 264 312
PPG 32.7 28.1
RPG 5.6 9.7
APG 5.3 6.8
SPG 2.8 1.8
BPG 1.3 0.9
TO/G 3.3 3.1
FG% .506 .517
3FG% .164 .400+ (forgot the #)
FT% .846 .901
They both look like super stars to me.
Let's try that again...
---------------Jordan----Bird
Games-----------264------312
PPG-------------32.7-----28.1
RPG-------------5.6------9.7
APG-------------5.3------6.8
SPG-------------2.8------1.8
BPG-------------1.3------0.9
TO/G------------3.3------3.1
FG%------------.506-----.517
3FG%-----------.164-----.400+ (forgot the #)
FT%------------.846-----.901
* .414 was the number for Bird's 3P% for that stretch. Yes, looking at the numbers it's hard to say who you would rather have on your team in their prime.
Wow, Bird's numbers are superior for that period of time. Bird also won the head to head match ups.