justlazy wrote:
Dopeman wrote:There is no truth to the report. Kenyans don't dope, it is not in their culture and they dont have access or money to the drugs.
this just proves that kenyans are not genetically superior and it means white guys do not do well because they are lazy trainers.
You do realize that steroids do not allow you to be lazy, they actually allow you to train harder with less chance of injury and faster recovery time.
Not condoning it, just setting facts straight.
really, is it a surprise? wrote:
i thought kenyans are far superior and those drugs are just too pricey for them doggonit..gullible people
NO idiot, its white English speakers are too honest, and they have too much to loose in getting caught.
Kenyans dont dope, they are simple people that only run for the love the sport. They are the noble savage.
This is good news. There will be more busts in the imminent
future.
RockyMountainHigh wrote:
Lance wasn't taking corticos fro "saddle sores".
Then, Rupp wasn't taking inhalants for "asthma." Like Lance, "something" is accounting for the wide range of sudden improvements in Rupp. What new "thing" has he found?
Rupp has been steadily improving for the last 7 years.What Rupp found, was a steady training partner, and the benefits of altitude tents.Lance was a promising junior before cancer, but unable to finish the tour, or compete in time trials. But after the cancer, he was a new man.
Masked Wonder wrote:
Then, Rupp wasn't taking inhalants for "asthma." Like Lance, "something" is accounting for the wide range of sudden improvements in Rupp. What new "thing" has he found?
I don't understand all these posts that still attempt to mis-characterize and over-generalize what Renato says about top Kenyan athletes and the effectiveness of blood doping.Do they not even read what he really says?Do they read what he says, but are unable, or unwilling, to comprehend?Do they comprehend what he says, but maliciously prefer to propogate strawman myths anyway?Or is this just bait for fools like me dumb enough to take it.I guess, unfortunately for humanity, it's a combination of all of the above.Renato makes very narrow assertions about highly trained top athletes, and the potential additional benefits of blood doping substances or procedures. But the article in the OP, with its poor choice of headline, is completely unrelated to these highly specific qualified statements. In this article, two female athletes tested positive for steroids. Even for women, these are not the "top" athletes. And of course, steroids are not EPO, or blood transfusions. The subjects are so disconnected, it could equally be an article about Formula 1 cars built in Kenya using a banned rocket fuel.These are huge distinctions. It boggles me that so many posters are unable to understand, or even worse, they fully understand, yet still continue with maliciously ignorant posts. If you have to make stuff up to make a point, maybe you don't have a point.
Doctor Irony wrote:
Suck on that mr Canova!!
rekrunner wrote:
Do they not even read what he really says?
Do they read what he says, but are unable, or unwilling, to comprehend?
Considering that much of what he writes is close to
unintelligible what he "really says" must remain no more than an educated guess on our part.
Renato makes very narrow assertions about highly trained top athletes
He does that. But he's made a lot of very broad generalisations as well. Hence the posts you're seeing in this thread.
Nguriatukei Rael Kiyara is better than you think. Her time may not be super fast, but look at all her wins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguriatukei_Rael_Kiyara
Why even bother reading mr Canovas post when they are so full of shit. I just can't wait until the day when one of his athlets gets caught.
mr Canova is going down!
ps. I think Rupp is taking all kinds of shit as well, so don't give me any racist crap!
Given the sheer number of Kenyans who particpate in road races (thousands)it is inevitable that 1 or 2 will be doping. But it is usually peripheral ones. This is unlike the USA and Russia where the top runners are the ones who are typically busted doping.
In fact virtually all the top athletes in sports like baseball and gridiron football have doped at some point.
rekrunner wrote:
Renato makes very narrow assertions about highly trained top athletes, and the potential additional benefits of blood doping substances or procedures. But the article in the OP, with its poor choice of headline, is completely unrelated to these highly specific qualified statements. In this article, two female athletes tested positive for steroids. Even for women, these are not the "top" athletes. And of course, steroids are not EPO, or blood transfusions. The subjects are so disconnected, it could equally be an article about Formula 1 cars built in Kenya using a banned rocket fuel.
The likelyhood is that these athletes were also on EPO or blood doping, but didn't get caught for it. (because it's more difficult to get busted.)
They are cynical cheats, do you honestly believe they (and their dodgy agent/doctor) would stop at a few steroids?
VoR wrote:
Considering that much of what he writes is close to unintelligible what he "really says" must remain no more than an educated guess on our part.
Once you break through the language barrier, most of it what he says is quite comprehensible without the need for guessing the meaning.
VoR wrote:
He does that. But he's made a lot of very broad generalisations as well. Hence the posts you're seeing in this thread.
Assuming for the sake of argument that he really did make "a lot" of "very broad" generalizations, please provide me an example of a Renato generalization that is so broad, it covers second-rate Kenyan women taking steroids.
Also, as a general rule, a few specific counter-examples do not necessarily contradict a generalization, even a "very broad" one.
She is not better than I think. She is not the same level as Mary Keitany.And I don't think your comments are racist, just baseless.
Doctor Iron wrote:
Nguriatukei Rael Kiyara is better than you think. Her time may not be super fast, but look at all her wins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguriatukei_Rael_KiyaraWhy even bother reading mr Canovas post when they are so full of shit. I just can't wait until the day when one of his athlets gets caught.
mr Canova is going down!
ps. I think Rupp is taking all kinds of shit as well, so don't give me any racist crap!
Which USA top runners were busted for doping?
jerry wrote:
Given the sheer number of Kenyans who particpate in road races (thousands)it is inevitable that 1 or 2 will be doping. But it is usually peripheral ones. This is unlike the USA and Russia where the top runners are the ones who are typically busted doping.
In fact virtually all the top athletes in sports like baseball and gridiron football have doped at some point.
Why do you think this is likely the case? I thought EPO is far less effective than steroids, especially for women. Why is it likely to combine the two? Seems it would only increase the chance of getting caught, without much additional benefit.
trollism wrote:
The likelyhood is that these athletes were also on EPO or blood doping, but didn't get caught for it. (because it's more difficult to get busted.)
They are cynical cheats, do you honestly believe they (and their dodgy agent/doctor) would stop at a few steroids?
Corticoids are used to "strengthen the legs." Cyclists use them all the time. Lance was not using them for saddle sores. He was using them to have iron like legs. Your legs do not feel as much pain and can handle the searing turnover and a higher level of lactic buildup.
That being said, corticoids in runners is dangerous to the runner. The legs become almost numb and it actually feels heavier to lift them up. In cycling it is a circular rotation with an easier flow once it has reached the pendulum assistance point, this is not the case in running. Corticoids in running can also mask improper footstrike and footplant, meaning it is easier to alter stride and ground strike and lead to injury. There have been runners that have tried these, and some had lead to major foot and leg injuries.
Corticosteroids are used to treat inflammation related diseases, we should wait for an appeal, I think one of the ladies who was 2nd in Boston might be cleared, alot of these runners are ignorant when it comes to treating an illness. Kiyara I believe took drugs to boost her perfomance, there are going to be athletes like her who will cheat, there are idiots and liars everywhere.
Runthedistance2 wrote:
Corticosteroids are used to treat inflammation related diseases, we should wait for an appeal, I think one of the ladies who was 2nd in Boston might be cleared, alot of these runners are ignorant when it comes to treating an illness. Kiyara I believe took drugs to boost her perfomance, there are going to be athletes like her who will cheat, there are idiots and liars everywhere.
Youve got this the wrong way round. Kiyara is the one who has had a very serious illness and stupidly took what the doctor gave her without checking if it contained doping products.
There is no way that it will be overturned as it is completely her fault and the likelyhood is that the steriods did increase her performance. But her health problems are well known and almost certainly she has fallen foul of her own ignorance. You are very correct that this is a big problem in Kenya - if a doctor gives you something you take it - no questions asked and no considerations of if it is allowed under doping rules!
they are on almost as much riods as these guys.
Lol right, and we know they definitely don't need the money or anything.
Aquafina wrote:
Kenyans dont dope, they are simple people that only run for the love the sport. They are the noble savage.