Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 7/15

I see there's another long-standing thread on this site for Masters, so maybe I'm in the wrong thread?!

Anyway: Another really hot and humid week here in the Maine boonies. Add to that the fact we're at the height of Deer Fly season, and there just wasn't the makin's of a really fun week. I sometimes need to run with a surgical mask as to not swallow the swarming suckers!

M-AM: 3.15 at a laughable 10:12 pace. Absolutely dead legs!/ PM: 2.2 hilly at a much better feeling 7:53 pace.

T-AM: 10.1 @ 8:39

W-AM:.31,.39,.44,.38,.34,.50 @ around 5K pace (6:40-6:50) with 90s rc's. 2.5 wu & cd./ PM:2.2 hilly @ 7:29

TH-AM:7 @ 9:09/PM: 2.2 hilly @ 8:19

F-AM: 4 mile Tempo @ 7:24/PM:2.2 hilly @7:52

S-AM:4.5 @9:23/PM:2.2 hilly @7:25

S-AM:7 @ 9:31/PM:2.2 hilly @ 7:51

About 57 for the week and 1488 YTD.

Looking at a 5k on the 21st, but it's almost a 2 hr drive to get there so I'm not sure...especially if the temps/humidity don't fall between now and then.

I do 99% of my running on gravel/dirt logging roads. I don't have access to a track so most Tempos are run at a cemetery witch is flat and has loops of dirt/gravel. When things are really bad weather-wise, I hit the TM (I have a Sole F63 that I calibrate monthly and only run on it at 3% elevation). At 3%, my times and perceived effort are really no different that what I find on the roads.

VF Runner - Nice cross training this week! I myself did plenty of cross training this weekend in the form of yardwork (not near as fun as a BBQ). But it's okay, because I did plenty of "carb-loading" on Friday night :)

Young Guy - I like to think of my workout (6 x mile w/30s rec) as more of a broken tempo than mile repeats. The goal was to start off feeling relaxed and pick it up the entire way through. Mission accomplished.

CTA - Though you may not be running planned workouts, you're still throwing in strides, progressions, and at least some MP work in your weeks. That is enough to get in decent shape. Plus NYC isn't until November anyway. BTW, that was me who does the 4/3/2/1 workout. Although I don't do it true Daniels style, I start at MP for the 4 and work down to 10k pace for the 1 mile.

young master - The first step in the quest for higher mileage is admitting your current mileage is half-assed, so at least you got that going for ya! Kidding of course, we all deal with time constraints (my week last week was only 38 miles). I agree though, 99% of the time a 30min run is better than no run. The only exception is if you're injured.

kr - Huge week!

A lot of impressive workouts in the thread this week. Should be interesting to see the results pay off later this summer.

Goal race: Fall half (sub 1:10 or bust)

Next race: Rockville 8k 7/21

Mon: 0

Tues: 10.5 (5 x mile on C&O off 90s; avg 5:30)

Wed: 10 progression run

Thurs AM: 4 PM: 10.5 fast

Fri AM: 4 PM: 5

Sat: 8 on Appalachian trail. Banged my knee pretty good.

Sun: 6 easy

Total: 58 miles / 416 minutes

Bashed my kneecap on a rock Saturday, and it's still a little sore. Not a big deal, just frustrating. Hoping to be able to break 27:00 this weekend, but it'll depend on the weather.

Goal 5M on 8/4

M: 60' Steady

T: 55' + strides

W: 6 x 1000M 2' rest 3:12 - 3:14

H: 60' + strides

F: 40'

S: 4M race - 20:47 29th (5:20/5:04/5:20/5:03)(20'wm/40'cd)

S: 110'

~ 70 miles

Not sure what to make of the race. It was hot and humid. Given the way the corral was setup I wasn't near the front and got out slow. Then slowed down the third mile maybe just lost focus. It was more of like a train through race. Wednesday work out was solid.

Liberty Park - You need to move around me. I do a 4 mile race in West Chester PA and 20:47 would have gotten you 5th!!!!

Geezer Guy - you are welcome here. We have no age limit!

Ghola - fall half sub 70, that's my goal too.

Liberty Park - That's a deep field if that time gets you 29th. Even paced, you would have been closer to 20 mins.

The thread is picking up. I think we peaked some time in Feb or March when we got to 4 pages but we've got lots of people on board now training hard!

Goal Race: Chicago Marathon

Goal Time: sub 2:30

M: Off (planned)

T: AM: 12.5 w/ 6x5:00 on/3:00 off+4x200/ PM: 8.5 easy

W: AM: 6.5 easy/ 12 easy

Th: AM: 8 easy/ 12 easy

F: AM: 7.5 easy/12 w/ 40 min tempo (6:21, 6:06, 5:58, 6:07, 5:40, 5:48, last .7 @ 5:44/mi) + 6x 25 sec strides

Sa: 13 easy

Su: 22 @ 6:45/mi

Weekly total: 114

Yearly Total: 2152

did the same workout as last week on friday at the same park. I made it slightly further this week, and I was able to get my pace down much quicker. The even miles are a bit hillier but nothing major. There was also a headwind this week on those. Pretty pleased with the workout overall. I had less left for the final burst, but I was able to push it more in the middle.

I felt awesome on my Sunday run, which was a real confidence booster. I feel like I might have made it back to where I should be after my time off in the winter and spring for injury and illness.

brumrunner: good luck in the 5k this week!

pablo: solid week. good to hear things are starting to round into form for you.

VF Runner: the track pentathlon you are doing sounds awesome and like a fun time.

kr: To answer your question in last weeks thread: I got in 3 weeks at 130 last summer before bringing it down to 110-115 all fall when grad classes started (and my time became more limited) prior to my december marathon. Before I got sick, I was back up to 110 in May, and after a down week to recover, I gradually brought it back up to my first 130 of the year last week.

kr (this week): Solid job in the half marathon. I have a somewhat similar half/full profile (My half pr is 73:15/full 2:33:20). It always helps to have someone else further validate for me that I don't need to be sub 70 in the half to give 2:30 a shot.

Goal Race: New Haven 20k??

Goal Time: No Idea

Mon: 5.5 - easy

Tue: 8 - easy

Wed: off

Thu: 21 mile bike

Fri: 6 - easy

Sat: 10 - easy

Sun: off

Total: 29.5 miles

So obviously a pretty pathetic week. I woke up last Sunday with some pain around my ankle but didn't run that day. It hurt a bit Monday, then Tuesday hurt more so I decided to take a few days off, ice and stretch a lot, and it felt better by Friday. I'm pretty sure it was tendonitis, although I have no idea how I got it since I didn't feel anything, then all of a sudden it hurt when I woke up one day. Odd. Anyway I'm still icing, but it's not bothering me. Let's hope it stays that way.

brumrunner: Nice week and good luck with the 5k.

Edgemont Dave: I am thinking about doing the Hartford 1/2M. Have you ran there before? I've heard it's a pretty quick course.

themack: That's some serious mileage on singles. Nice.

Pablo: These weeks are starting to look awful familiar.

CTA: A very decent week indeed. Nice job!

Hans E: A mid run swim is one way to cool off in this summer heat. I may have to start incorporating that into my own training.

kr: Great HM at the end of a killer week. Sounds like you had some fun playing with tactics too.

Geezer - The only time you'll see us discriminate another poster is if they're obviously trolling. Because of the nature of this thread, trolls typically avoid it, but it's happened. Race times, mileage, and goals are more or less irrelevant. It's just a thread to share ideas and to get the camaraderie of like minded individuals. I'm surprised you're able to run 3% incline and it feel no different than on the roads. You must live in a hilly area. 3% for me is a freaking mountain!

Liberty - Interesting pacing for the race. Sounds like you left a good bit of time out there.

des - 114 miles on only 6 days running is some sick stuff! FWIW, I don't think anyone will tell you that it's required to be sub-70 in the half before breaking 2:30 in the marathon. BUUUTTT, for me it was definitely more of a mental thing, knowing that I'd already run sub 5:20 pace for a half before trying to attempt ~5:43 pace for the full. Sub 2:30 is definitely within your reach, especially given your knack for the marathon. Looking forward to seeing what you put together over the next few months.

stamford - Sounds like an odd injury. Eerily similar to what I had 2 weeks before Chicago last year...except mine was in my hamstring. One day I woke up, and it was there. For me, a few days off seemed to help it get about 70% better. After that a combination of ice, massage, and drugs got it right as rain again. As long as it's not getting worse throughout the run or altering your stride, I'd say continue running.

Pretty cool thread with some committed athletes.

41 y/o looking to crack 4:40 in the mile in one week. I've gone 4:50 a couple of times this summer, but feel like I left a lot out there in my last effort. 9:43 3000 on the track and 16:46 5K road a few months ago.

Last week:

Mon: 8 easy/medium trails (7:30s)

Tues: Off

Wed: 12 x 300 on the track - avg 4:36 pace (slow 4:50 pace; fast 4:21) sets of 3 with 1 minute rest in between efforts and approx 2 minutes rest in between sets. 7 miles w/warm-up and cool-down.

Thurs: 7 easy trails (7:50s)

Fri: 10 med road flat (7:00s)

Sat: 20 mile ride (hilly - medium effort)

Sun: 5 miles hard trails (6:46, 6:20, 6:15, 6:08, 6:35 - big hill last mile)

37 miles running - pretty typical week for me this summer.

Goal(s): Late November 10k

Early winter 1/2

M- 4.5 (7:51m/m, 127AHR) +6xstride

T- 7.5+ (7:52, 136)

W- 8 (8:00, 126)+4xstride

T- 5+ (7:43, 1:27)

F- 5+ (7:46, 136) +4xstride

S- 11 (8:19, 129)

S- 4.5 (7:29, 135)+2xstride

Total: 45.5

Still dealing with what feel like stumbling paces (which I don't mind at ALLL when I'm in heavy training and jogging through my easy days). This last week things have begun to feel more awkward at those paces. What was interesting is that yesterday I ended up picking thigns up a bit and my HR was a bit lower despite the rise in pace...I'm thinking it's an efficiency thing (as in I'm prob more efficient at 7-7:15ish than a minute-ish slower, thus my HR is lower). I may try workign up to these and see if my HR stablizes in the correct zone.

Sunday was interesting in that I ran the first couple miles with the girlfriend before saying I was gonna runthe last bit at 80-82%HRM...I ran dead even at 6:23. Ughhhh. It felt good to go faster, but really disappointing to an extent. Hoping things come along, and also holding out a hope that my e-bayed Garmin is giving me a bit long on these things and I'm actually runnign a more normal pace. Don't know--either way I'm WAY off of waht I was averaging for even 10M length LT efforts a couple months ago.

I'll do a catch up on everyone's training and post some comments in a bit, but kinda rushed getting out a proposal letter at teh moment. Looking forward to reading through!

brum - and I wish I had your speed! :-) The only logic I could see in doing something like that would be if it were part of a set of 5km reps @ ~target pace or something similar. Though it could have been a tempo that came out a little slower than intended.

Geezer Guy - I couldn't run on a treadmill for any legnth of time at 3%. Does it not put any strain on your achilles?

I hope that knee eases off Ghola.

stamford - sometimes the body throws in random things that go as quickly as they come.

That is huge mileage des. I shall watch your training with interest. I ran my 2:30:02 pb off of a 73:34 half 9 weeks earlier a few years back. I seem to get into good marathon shape from reasonable hm shape quite quickly. I'm sure if I tapered off for a half my conversion wouldn't be quite so tight though.

Looks like I'm late to the party this week, lads. This was my 2nd cautious week back; everything went ok so I'll start training "normally" again now.

Next race (???)

Goal race (~68 half?)

M- Off

T- AM- 10mi easy, 71' PM- 3mi easy, barefoot, 24'

W- PM- 10mi very easy, no watch

Th- PM- 3mi wu, 3x6min on, 2min off, 2mi down (averaging about 5:24/mile on the hard parts) Easy workout, felt good.

F- AM 4 PM 4 kept this day really light on purpose

S- 8mi moderate, felt really good on this- kinda wish I had a watch

Sun- 14mi moderate (which is ~6:30 pace right now)

tot- should add up to 62

I've gotta be better about strides/drills, though (to say nothing of beer and barbecue).

Pablo: I've been doing the 3% incline thing for about a year now so it's something my body has adjusted to at this point. Even though between late Spring and early Fall I'm primarily on the roads, if I do happen to use the TM (as I had to this AM), it still feels "normal" to me at 3% even though I may not have used it for a long while. In any event, after playing with 0% to 2% incline for quite a while after I got the machine, I bumped up to 3% because only at that incline could I duplicate my out door efforts/paces when I plugged in the appropriate TM speed.The times are so close, in fact, that if I look at them in my Excel workout log, I wouldn't be able to distinguish between a TM workout and a road workout unless I made a note as to which was which. Having said all that, I much prefer doing workouts on the road as running distance based intervals on a TM gets a little weird, I think, because it takes so long for the machine to ramp up to speed in the work bout, and ditto for the machine to slow down into the recovery interval. As an example, if I want to go from TM speed 6.1 to 8.5, it takes my Sole a full 41 seconds to get up to 8.5, and then about 20 seconds to get back down to 6.1. With distance based stuff, this makes for slower work bouts and faster recovery intervals...both in terms of ave pace. Didn't mean to get off such a long post!

DES- mileage is pretty awesome, once i start my real marathon training i'm thinking of going around 100

GRIZZ- very solid week, tough workout

Brum- Killing it as always. I wish I had the ability to put in an effort every other day! If you're rested right 15:30 is in the bag.

Mack- Nice bump back into the higher mileage range--and I presume all on singles?! Ouch. Impressive.

Young Guy- Feeling the tempo followed by cutdown workout. I've always been a big fan but never really had the chance to implement sessions like that.

Pablo- "eh, I'll just run 20 miles." Ouch. Balls to that--unbelievable you've got the strength banked to do that on a whim and not be beat the next couple days (even going real easy).

VF- Manuel labor and just doing normal stuff will drain one easy; props for getting the 15 in despite the last couple days being off...though I'm sure it felt unpleasant (I haaaaate how running feels after a couple days off)

Hans- I like your training, man. You always seem to have consistent weeks with very little 'bad', and nothing really crazy looking either. I do wish I had the self discipline to do things that way.

KR- I hate reading your training. Yourself, Pablo, and Brum just seem to nail sh*t ALL the time and with damn nice volumes. I'm jealous of the track session--that's teh best feeling ever to be rolling for the intended paces and just having fun. Also a grand race! Always fun (though painful..) to be heavy into a race situation and boxing back and forth with an opponent.

I started out very easy, so that helped a lot. And though it was hot, it was in some ways less miserable than last night's workout done with a misery index of about 160! (Temp 94+dew point 66)

Feather wrote:

Brum- Killing it as always. I wish I had the ability to put in an effort every other day! If you're rested right 15:30 is in the bag.

KR- Always fun (though painful..) to be heavy into a race situation and boxing back and forth with an opponent.

Thanks. I managed more quality last week because I had had an easy week the previous week. Normally I'll only be able to run hard twice in a given week.

And I agree, the best thing about racing is getting in a proper battle with someone else, even if you're competing for 50th place in a XC race. Being someone's enemy for half an hour, fighting them and not giving up at all, then shaking hands and having a laugh at the end of it; that's what makes it fun and why I love racing.