How much of an exact science is sports medicine anyway? Given that most doctors I've been to seem to all have different ideas of the difference between tenditis and tendinosis, and given that there is still so much debate over whether stretching is harmful or helpful Ive kind of figured that how to treat injuries is far from certain.
To their defense, you know how many hobby jogging friends and people I know eventually had to see a doctor because of running?
In reality, 90% of the people don't have the body to train for a marathon. Let's say 50mpw minimum. A lot of people I know have tried with gusto and all kinds of injuries resulted.
I think much of it can be attributed to a combination of weight, slow/inefficient stride and running on sidewalks.
Concerned Citizen wrote:
They don't say that in other parts of the country?
I think he meant the "grandparent at age 40" part was more common in the south (no idea if statistics would back this up)
This probably has more to do with biomechanics than the way the body develops. People who start running as adults have bad form normally.Any doctor worth their consultation fee needs to ask what your goals are and do their best to facilitate you achieving those goals to the best of their ability. If that is not possible, they should tell you what they feel is reasonable.It is obvious that there are many guys out there who can run over 50mpw week in and week out. Running itself isn't inherently bad for you. Running poorly is inherently bad for you, even at 10mpw for some.
ronner wrote:
I remember reading on here in the last few years about a study that came out of Stanford that concluded that runners who train through their development stages(before they are full grown) are actually at a very low risk of knee problems when they are older. It's the folks who start distance running when they are already full grown that have the long term knee problems. I'm too lazy to try and look it up, so maybe someone else can. But he just of it was that while your developing, if you are running miles, your body develops in a way that helps you sustain that for the rest of your life. If you don't run while you are developing, you body is
The doctors are trained to deal with "Symptoms" not the cause.
If they do not understand running and the training it takes to "Run" they just assume what you’re doing is too much. The end result to them is, don't do it or cut back.
Just like High blood Pressure. All they want is for you to take a pill not fix your diet and exercise.
Simon Phoenix wrote:
Why do most doctors (including "sports medicine" ones) hate running and think 30mpw is the max amount you should eve
"sports medicine" is a joke.
Physician here.
I'm not sure where you got the information or impression that 'most doctors hate running.' To start your thread with that assertion is sort of like me asking you 'why do you beat your wife.'
I see mostly overweight, unhealthy people all day long and the few bright points in my day are often visits by high school distance runners - maybe there for an injury, but more likely just coming in for a minor illness or a physical. It is always a pleasure to see this slim, healthy kids.
It is quite true that most physicians have no special expertise in running and know little about it. But that doesn't mean they 'hate it.' I know running was never even mentioned while I was in medical school, and in residency we might have covered a few minor things like shin splints and runners knee - that is generally all the average doc is going to get at a sports medicine CME conference as well.
Sports med docs are dealing with football, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, soccer, tennis and a multitude of other sports. Most of them are not experts about running. Would you be able to talk with an elite tennis player about how many volleys they should do in practice, at what intensity, to avoid tennis elbow, or intelligently chat with a basketball player or defensive lineman the details of their training?
Most doctors I work with are overjoyed if their patients are exercising and healthy. Obviously if you come to a doctor with a stress fracture or bad shin splints or bad achilles tendinitis or whatever, they are probably just going to tell you to ice it, rest it, and then do less so as to avoid re-injury.
Most elite runners and coaches probably know much more about training and specific running injuries than most docs. Medicine is a big field. Docs are definitely not experts in the minutiae of training for every sport. If you have training questions, you are better off seeking an experienced coach. Most docs just don't deal with this stuff. Most of our days are taken up with sore throats, allergies, depressed people, obese people whose backs hurt, etc etc. Few elite marathon runners just walk in to our offices every day, unless you happen to be going to some particular doc associated with a college or professional program.
But that does not mean docs 'hate running.' That is just silly and is wrong. With the explosion of obesity and diabetes in this country, most docs would welcome and encourage any form of exercise.
3e3e3 wrote:
Much more than 30mpw puts an awful lot of stress on the knees. You want to be able to play with your grandkids when you're 40, don't you?
My dad is a doctor, is 56, and runs up to 50mpw in 6 days.
A very general number. It depends on so many things. What age you start running. How many years you run. To throw out a number like that is very misleading. Plus bodies are different. Many could handle 100 mpw for many years. Others would start to break down with only 25-50 mpw over a period of time. Also the intensity of those miles, how hard you run them. It's about the long term effects on any particular body. The problem is none of us know how many miles our body has.
So why not go to a running doctor? I advise numerous runners with a Ph.D. Biomechanics and a very slow mid 2:20s marathon. Just ask around and you'll find many doctors run marathons! Well many being like 5%.
areusure? wrote:
So why not go to a running doctor? I advise numerous runners with a Ph.D. Biomechanics and a very slow mid 2:20s marathon. Just ask around and you'll find many doctors run marathons! Well many being like 5%.
mid 220s is slow? what?
Most hate running? That's quite an assertion. Present the evidence please.
Saw an orho guy today said I had early signs of arthritis in the knees WTF?
I saw a podiatrist who gave me orthotics back in 2001 for plantar fasciitis. The orthotics seemed to be heavy and designed for dress shoes. They made my plantar fasciitis worse so I ditched them and gradually returned to running and my plantar fasciitis disappeared.
In 2011, I was told by a podiatrist that some redness in my toe was arthritis. I had my foot X-ray and there was none.
In 2011-2012, after running 70-90mpw regularly and developing a sacral stress reAction and low back pain, I was told by a "sports medicine" physiatrist I had bilateral hip dysplasia and that some of my symptoms were coming from it and to quit running or risk future damage and total hip replacement later in life. I was warned by this doc and his colleague (a 4:35 marathoner and event physician at a number of major marathons) not to return to high mileage because I don't have the anatomy for it because of the hip dysplasia.I got a second opinion from a world expert on hip dysplasia in young adults that I in fact do not even have any hip dysplasia.
Some Lessons learned:
1) sports medicine is a crock of sh*t. These people know nothing about distance running other than dont do much of it because you might get hurt.
2) do not see doctors who aren't/weren't competitive long distance runners themselves except in rare case that there's clearly an anatomical problem that requires surgical intervention.In that rare case you might need to see a surgeon.
3) do not see a doctor who tries to give you training advice.
4) try to work with a PT who understands endurance athletes.
large . wrote:
3e3e3 wrote:Much more than 30mpw puts an awful lot of stress on the knees. You want to be able to play with your grandkids when you're 40, don't you?
My dad is a doctor, is 56, and runs up to 50mpw in 6 days.
Yeah, but does he play with your kids?
Concerned Citizen wrote:
large . wrote:My dad is a doctor, is 56, and runs up to 50mpw in 6 days.
Yeah, but does he play with your kids?
ROFL
My experience has been the opposite. I saw a sports doc last Fall for what turned out to be a stress reaction of my femur. I run 90mpw and am a 50 year old woman. He didn't make one negative comment and totally understood my need to get back the sport asap.
More recently, I had a mystery illness that stopped my legs working properly when running. I was kept in the hospital for 8 days and dealt mostly with a team of neurologists but was evaluated by several different sub-specialties as well. Every group's focal point was to get me running again, that's what it was ALL about.
Frankly, I was floored by the wash of support and help I received for something so particularly quality-of-life based but seemingly unnecessary, as running is.
Because for most people (including athletes) that is the max they should run.
Wow you're lucky. Had to deal with layers of bullshit.
xoxoxo wrote:
My experience has been the opposite. I saw a sports doc last Fall for what turned out to be a stress reaction of my femur. I run 90mpw and am a 50 year old woman. He didn't make one negative comment and totally understood my need to get back the sport asap.
More recently, I had a mystery illness that stopped my legs working properly when running. I was kept in the hospital for 8 days and dealt mostly with a team of neurologists but was evaluated by several different sub-specialties as well. Every group's focal point was to get me running again, that's what it was ALL about.
Frankly, I was floored by the wash of support and help I received for something so particularly quality-of-life based but seemingly unnecessary, as running is.
Just see someone who runs. Cross reference their name with Athlinks.com.
As docs, we're primarily taught to treat with medicine or surgery, or what we can bill for. My treatment approach for athletes comes from my own experience as an athlete, coach, as well as attending coaching seminars and running seminars. There really isn't a true sports medicine class in med school. There are a few sports medicine fellowships after you graduate. Also keep in mind very few docs were jocks back in high school, if anything they were the nerds, geeks, weaklings. So inherently there's a little jock-bashing if you see most docs. Conversely there's a greater percentage of ex jocks in physical therapy.
Tarahumara. Enough said