Yeah, assuming it was the heat that did you in, I could see you having a real quick recovering. You could be back in about a week i'd imagine. You could even probably use your training to jump into another race with the same 2:43 goal in about 4 or 5 weeks.
Dehydration takes a worse toll than simply bonking. I'd be very cautious about trying to "bounce back" too soon.
MarathonMind wrote:
Dehydration takes a worse toll than simply bonking. I'd be very cautious about trying to "bounce back" too soon.
True true. I guess I was being a little more optimistic than I should have.
It is rather unpredictable. In my personal experience I have bounced back from overheating relatively quickly.. Relatively quickly in comparison to completing a marathon at closer to goal race paceafter about a week of feeling lousy my legs were completely back.
Be cautious as the above poster said though.
Tough run for everyone up in Boston today. I tracked a bunch of you and respect you for giving it a shot.
I spent Sunday-Friday down in Florida caring for my dad as he recovers from heart surgery. Still managed 6 runs with some good workouts too.
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: 10 MP miles. 1st mile in 6:52, the rest in 6:30's.
Wednesday: 8 Easy miles. 7:15's.
Thursday: 10.3 Miles. 3:2:1 workout. 3 - 6:16, :25, :29. 2 - 6:16, :24. 1 - 6:09.
Friday: 7.1 miles really easy. 8:20's
Saturday: 6.2 miles really easy again. 8:20's
Sunday: 9.5 hill repeat miles. 4 x 1 mile hills (200ft) 7:00 hills.
Total 51 miles.
Next race: 4/21 Tarheel 10 miler. Mile 9 is the same hill as Sunday's workout.
I went out easy from the start and still had a sufferfest. Quads were mush by 23 and I shuffled home the last 2 just trying not to seize up. Finished in 3:15, roughly 30 min off PR territory. Tough day, where you just needed good heat acclimatization that I most definitely ain't got.
Good luck on a speedy recovery.
Tough going for Boston runners today. Had a preview of it yesterday on my long run and I know I'm screwed if it's hot the day of my race.
M: 5 recovery
T: 10 with 2 * 3mi (6:27 pace and 6:24 pace)
W: 10 EZ
Th: 10 with 7 at 6:38.
F: 5 recovery
Sat: 6 EZ
Sun: 20 (7:55) In the late afternoon heat.
Total: 66
Paces and effort on Tues/Thurs were encouraging for my target mp (6:30-6:35). The last time I ran a 20 miler in the heat I was wrecked for a week so I tried to take it easy. Still faded pretty badly the last 2 miles. I hope there is something to that mitacondria and capillary development stuff because that's the slowest I've ever run a 20 miler.
I never contributed to this thread, but have been watching from the sidelines for a long time, and I think sharing my exeperiences at Boston today might give other people who ran some much-needed perspective.
I was trying to break 2:40--I've run the race 5 times now, and the best I've been able to manage is 2:45:52. I have always struggled in this race, too. I've often toed the line fit enough to break 2:40, but the mistake that I have repeated (now) the past three times I have run this race is to go out too fast, end up blowing up, and invariably crawling toward the finish.
Let me start by telling you that I saw the warnings in the e-mails sent out by the BAA. Despite hearing other runners talk about how they have slowed 10 seconds or more off their goal pace during hot years, I treated those warnings like they were for someone else. "I'm fit, so the heat should affect me less," was my line of reasoning. I also stupidly believed I could "out-run" the heat (get off to a fast start, and bank time before the heat effects you--in short: a TERRIBLE idea.)
I felt great in my first four miles, which were a 5:45/5:45/and a couple of 5:5x's. I developed a slight stich in my right side, and had to slow down a bit to recover--hey: my next two miles were under 6 mins. I believed that my strategy just might work. I envisioned myself crawling up heartbreak hill only needing to run the last six miles in near 7 min pace. And I plowed ahead. A couple miles later, I had a stitch on the other sode of my stomach. Now I couldn't breathe. Also, I realized that I was getting fatigued: I felt like I had covered about a half marathon, bit still had about 18 miles to go.
So, without asking myself a question that I will reflect on later--"why does this keep happening to me?"--I pulled over to the side of the road and walked. The crowds at Boston are wonderful, very supportive...but I hated them. I hated it every time someone asked if I was OK. I hated ot when people shouted encouragement at me, trying to pick me up because I was obviously having a bad day. I love the people, but hated the crowd. And while I was busy hating them for their kindness, I noticed something: my head was absolutely throbbing from the sun beating down on me. So when you have physical symptoms that you aren't prepared to deal with, and youv'e got things going on in your mind that distract you from running, you are off to a pretty bad start.
Let me shorten this quite a bit by pointing out that, once I started running again, I was still ahead of the 6:06 pace I was hoping to average. I had visions of running an even split, or--better yet--pull off a highly-unlikely negative split. I'm not saying people don't negative split at Boston--just that those who do are those who do a much better job of planning than I did. Make it through the hills in Newton with anything left and the last five miles practically beg you to run fast, but that has more to do with your ability to regulate your effort than an iron will. One thing i can say for sure is that this Boston held the most bizarre experience I have ever had while running the race: as I'm flying through the "scream corridor" at Wellesley, my stitch returns, I can barely breathe, and I look down and say "Christ...how long does this thing go on for?!!!" because I don't want to start walking until I'm out of earshot of all of the enthusiasm on display. Needless to say, after walking portions of miles 13, 14, and a prudent decision not to run the length of Heartbreak, I was done. It was now a struggle to keep under 7mins/mile, and a few of my splits balooned into the 8:30 range.
I am writing this at the airport, and it's good to see so many smiling faces on runners, all of whom, without exception, have had terrible days. If you ran smart and finished strong, then congratulations! If you made the same mistakes I did, then don't feel bad. I don't think I would habe forgiven myself for not trying to run the time I was chasing, even though it was pretty foolish to do so. (As a side note: this is the second spring marathon in a row that I have had sabotaged by unseasonably warm weather.) I wish things had gone differently, but they didn't! Ended up mpre than 15 minutes slower than the time I wanted to run. It hurts, but the pain will go away, and hopefully I'll be smarter next time (prob not: hopefully the weather is kinder, though!) If you ran, then you just experienced what it was like to run in one of the tougher years...you should be proud of that!
Never_Ran_Well_In_Boston Hindsight aside ... props for deciding to treat it like a race and go for it. Sorry it didn't work out again despite your fitness.
Thank you for the report. It was good reading even if it didn't have a happy ending. When you are ready to give it another go change your posting handle to Going_To_Run_Well_In_Boston and come on back.
I felt like I was in legitimate 6:10 pace shape for Boston.
Given the heat, I modified the plan. I thought I had an excellent plan laid out with gels every 30 min (high sodium,) additional salt tabs every 5 miles, Gatorade at every aid station and water over the head, starting at mile 1, to keep the body temp down. I also raised my pace plan to 6:23s with a backup of paying close attention to my HR. I do all my training by HR and I know what pace equals what for HR. I was figuring a 163-165 HR would be 6:20 pace taking the heat into account. I thought I would be able to even split or even negative split if I was ultra conservative on the first half in the heat. HAHAHA!
So, the race plan was 6:23s for the first half but with a hard cap of 172 for a HR on the hills and looking for an average of 163-165. I had no stomach issues going into the start (unlike CIM.)
I lined up about mid pack in the corral 1 with 15 minutes to the start. Even standing there for those 15 minutes, the sun was beating on us. It was hot.
Gun goes off. I am on plan. 6:23 @ the mile and deliberately backed off on the first uphill. HR higher than I was expecting right away.
6:25, 6:22, 6:21 (all quick miles but HR is way high for this pace.) I’ve run these miles faster in training at a 155 HR. So I back off a little more….I am sticking to the plan.
Mile 4 to 5 is all gradual uphill and I deliberately back off to 6:43 then 6:27, 6:29, 6:36, 6:31. I can’t believe how high my HR is now. I am averaging 170 which is normally sub 5:50 pace. I ran a 1:15:50 half marathon in the buildup for Boston at an average HR of 168. I decide to back off even more.
6:46, 6:48, 6:42, 6:44 through Wellesley. Hit the half in 1:26, avg HR for the half is 169. Even though this is ridiculously slow and I’ve been backing off, I feel medium at best. It is now really hot. I am dumping water on my head, carrying ice in my hands and rubbing my neck with it and drinking a full cup of Gatorade at every station. Gel every 30 min, salt every 5 miles, without fail.
6:58 at 15 brings the HR down more. I see SamBlackBones at mile 15 and say “hi.” We agree that this day sucks. The 7:07 at 16 was not deliberate. Quads are crampy. 6:54 down the steep hill and the quads cramp at the bottom. Game over. From there it was full survival mode. I tried to cool off, kept with the salt and Gatorade and the plan of gel every 30 min. Could not get it going again. Once the quads cramped, every step was super painful and the down hills after heartbreak were, well, heartbreaking. It was so damn hot.
Caught my brother in law, who is a 2:35 PR, at mile 22. He had blown on heartbreak and we got each other to the finish. The last few miles were so awful. My quads were right on the verge of cramping again the whole way and I could not speed up. Everyone is screaming and yelling for us to "go" and I have a hard time not hating them all. Running 9 min miles for the last 3 just prolonged the agony.
Bottom line? I suck in the heat. I know this and I’ve proven it throughout my athletic career. I need to pick my races carefully and Boston this year was just bad luck.
3:16:00 flat. A far cry from the low 2:40 shape I felt my training indicated. Marathon #2. Check!
Wow guys, mad respect for giving it your all out there. Relax, enjoy some post-race beers and some well-earned time off, and then start training for a nice cool fall marathon.
Goal NAIA Marathon 2013
Time TBD
Monday- 8 mi (6:59)
Tuesday- 7.17 mi (6:45)
Wednesday- 6.0 mi (7:11)
Thursday- 6.0 mi (7:07)
Friday- 4.1 mi (7:19 )
Saturday- 4.39 mi (6:55)/ 5.3 mi (6:50)
Sunday- 10.25 mi (7:16 )
Total 51 (ish)
Overall a quality week, Sundays run is actually today's. Couldn't get out for a run yesterday as it was pouring buckets and 40mph+thunderstorms, thought a rest day was best. I liked my quality but my pacing is a concern, I am going too fast I think for where I am in my training. I bought a GPS watch so I can monitor my running next week. My only real concern as of now is my right hips range of motion. I have a hard time keeping my legs strides similar. I am weak in the hamstring and hip area and have been strengthening them slowly.
Goal next week is 55-60, on a Boston related note my former college teammates went 2:35 and 3:15 (girl) today. Heat was a massive factor the guy went out in 1:13 and closed slow. I wonder how good he had done if he controlled himself. Hope everyone is doing okay and keep the training up!
I got to watch Boston yesterday. Conditions were obviously unbelievably tough, so well done for hanging in there until the end guys. I guess that's part of the attraction of the marathon - the cruelty that you can put in a good training block and something as uncontrollable as weather can stitch you up.
samblackbones - I ran a 50k in similar conditions last year and it took me a good 4 weeks (at least) before I felt somewhat normal (though at the time I went into it recovering from a heavy cold and very undertrained), so as MarathonMind has said...... Listen to your body and don't rush it.
marmite - sounds like a great idea to run without a watch. And if there's one place you won't need one, it's London.
marmite, brumrunner, CTA (and anybody else I may have forgotten?) - good luck for this Sunday! Run well!
I got to watch Boston yesterday. Conditions were obviously unbelievably tough, so well done for hanging in there until the end guys. I guess that's part of the attraction of the marathon - the cruelty that you can put in a good training block and something as uncontrollable as weather can stitch you up.
samblackbones - I ran a 50k in similar conditions last year and it took me a good 4 weeks (at least) before I felt somewhat normal (though at the time I went into it recovering from a heavy cold and very undertrained), so as MarathonMind has said...... Listen to your body and don't rush it.
marmite - sounds like a great idea to run without a watch. And if there's one place you won't need one, it's London.
marmite, brumrunner, CTA (and anybody else I may have forgotten?) - good luck for this Sunday! Run well!
By the way, as an aside, having watched Paris, Rotterdam, Boston and (highlights of) Milan over the last few days, is it just me, or do a lot of the Kenyans seem to be packing a little more upper body muscle than in years gone by? They're still obviously uber-skinny, but they do seem to be packing a bit more (visible enough that Mrs kr actually made the same comment)?
Well that was fun wasn't it? Boston is the only race that I will subject myself to that torture again. I'm glad my crappy training is now over. My goal was just to finish with going to the med tent or feeling to crappy.
I ran at a pace that I felt was a jog, but even a no-effort pace was tough at the end and I slowed down a lot. I did run a 3:33 but stopped for short bits a couple of times and at mile 25.5 for about 2 minutes for a cold can of Miller Lite from some friends. My first mile was 6:38. I had a 9:07 mike going up HB. 21:45 first 5k. 27 minute last 5k. My legs feel slightly sore but not like I ran a marathon. Just a really slow long run. Ah well.
Time to take a break From running and regroup for NYC in the fall. It better not be hot.
Boston Recap -
Last week I did an easy 25 min tempo on Tuesday and some easy 400ms on Thursday. Took Friday off and kept it short the other days.
Yesterday's splits -
5K 00:17:32 17:32 05:39
10K 00:35:25 17:53 05:46
15K 00:53:35 18:10 05:51
20K 01:12:33 18:58 06:07
HALF01:16:39 04:06 06:01
25K 01:31:47 15:08 06:15
30K 01:52:57 21:10 06:49
35K 02:15:56 22:59 07:24
40K 02:40:08 24:12 07:48
Finish Net 02:50:12 10:04 07:23
After I came through 15K I knew it wasn't going to be good. So I just tried to get it in. Even that wasn't easy.
I didn't do a lot of marathon specific pace work for this race. I'm kind of glad I didn't train my but off only to have a crappy day. I felt like I was in generally good shape, but maybe I should get more rest.
To train for Boston next year, I will try to beat the crap out of my legs for 8 - 10 miles and then run 10 - 12 miles at MP over some hills.
I think the sorenesss is mostly from the first half of the course, I wore trainers which is good because it ended up just a slow long long run.
It's still Boston so it was still a good run despite the heat and everything that went with it.
Wow, that was some day. I think all of us at home were stunned watching the carnage. I would not have had the guts to tough it out to the finish line. So my hat is off to you guys! Inspirational.
Having said that, i decided i'm gonna do Boston 2013. Not only that, i think i will go for NYC 2012 as well. NYCM is tightening up the automatic qualifying standards so i figure this is my last time i can get in by time standard. I always told my friends that i would never do either race because the courses are "slow" and hard, but i need to start learning to enjoy running races and not focus solely on PRing.
Here is my first Boston marathon in a nutshell: I ran 24.2 miles in 2:30 and the other 2 miles took more than 45 minutes - 3:17:10 finish.
I could have, should have, would have slowed my goal pace by a lot more. If I had run 2:27 as I intended I would have finished 18th. If I had run 2:32 or so as I was thinking on race morning I would have finished in the top 30. I am not that fast. I should have been aiming for closer to 2:40. Even after going out in 1:16 at the half I figured 2:45 would be a good day.
5k splits:
17:24
17:31
18:00
19:00
18:42
21:04
54:28!!
21:45
9:16 (last 2.2k)
What happened? I melted! I weighed myself on race morning before eating breakfast or drinking any water - 122.6. The next morning after some serious attempts at rehydration and two big meals I was 114.6. I'm guessing that I lost 10-14 pounds in the race (10% of body weight!). There was nothing I could do to replenish that much. I was taking water and gatorade at every mile and trying to get a bunch over my head. I was grabbing cups from bystanders. It was just too hot. My other marathons were all late fall and in cool or cold weather. I forced myself to run all the way to the top of heartbreak but then I succumbed to a stumbling shuffle.
I wandered into a medical station just before 35k with nausea. I figured I was just going to throw up and then get going again. I didn't want to risk anything but I also didn't want to disappoint my wife and baby at the finish line (She's 3 months pregnant so there's an announcement!). They gave me some ice to put over my head and took heart rate and blood pressure. I was satisfied I wasn't in really bad shape. But then I started shivering. It was 85 degrees and I was cold! I got a few of those reflective blankets and warmed up. I was sitting there for 20 or 25 minutes, during which time samblackbones and 1st timer probably went by. Then I stood up, felt ok, asked someone if I could leave and they said yes so I took off running. My next mile (23) was 7:11, then 6:38, then 6:48.
I got to the finish line alive but still wanted to vomit. The long walk through the post race water/food/medals was too much. I stopped to try to throw up into a street grate and someone immediately came over to get me in a wheelchair. They weren't taking any chances. I really didn't mind sitting down, then they took me all the way back to the med tent. I was there for a few minutes, laid down and was finally getting gatorade down. In the end I never threw up. But I still had to go back through that sun and heat to get my bag and find my wife. It was dizzying.
My overall impression of the race was good. I'm not disappointed. Nothing I could do about the weather. I made it out ok and still finished ahead of 20,000 people. I have much respect for all of them and how much they suffered.
Wellesley was awesome. BC was great and would have been better if I hadn't been walking. Still, the students were all supporting me. The volunteers and medical people were great. The fans really stepped up with offering water outside of the aide stations. They often had cold water or ice when the aide stations had warm water. In my prep for the race I was shocked that there was only one official place to get gels. Philly has 3. Seems like there should have been more, especially for a hot day. You can get a lot of carbs and electrolytes in a gel that you can't get in a drink.
Congrats to everyone who survived Boston 2012.
Who knows, I might try to get into a half marathon in a few weeks to try to do something with the fitness I have.
Death march for me in Boston as well. Wasn't in top shape because I didn't have the proper training commitment. Thought I could run 2:40 so figured I figured 2:45 giving the heat.
Quads started locking up out as early as half way. Hobbled it in in a 2:53. I was running faster up- than downhill.
Seems now like I actually did not as bad as many others even though I ran PR +20min.
Was a neat challenge nonetheless. I learned a lot again. Will be back. See you here in August when training for NYC begins. Enjoy summer (good luck down undies).