What do you say to someone who thinks their vote in a state or federal election actually matters?

Never vote.

This is a tough concept but we can work through it together. A certain group of people might figure that their vote doesn't matter so they decide not to vote. Something about the way they think, maybe something in their experiences lead them to make that decision. Some might think about not voting, but end up voting anyway. The factors that lead one of that similar group to vote will probably affect others in that group the same way.In real life this happens. Poor people beleive their individual vote doesn't matter and they are less likely to vote. The point is that your decision making process is very similar to many others in your representative group. So maybe your group doesn't believe in voting. You're Welcome! (thanks for the edit)

RPS wrote:

Despite your name you are not very logical. This situation is very similar to the tragedy of the commons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Logical Man wrote:

"If they start to (think) that their individual vote doesn't matter and they don't vote, millions of their representative group might think the same way and also not vote."

This ^ makes absolutely no sense. How the hell is this one individual deciding not to vote causing millions of others to decide not to vote?

I do like you're "Your welcome", though.

[quote]random a hole wrote:

Florida '00 had a difference of approx 500 votes. /quote

The 2004 Washington State Gubenatorial election was decided by about 130 votes. If you don't care enough to participate in one of the fundamental duties as a citizen, then do not plan on complaining about the outcome.

RPS wrote:

What I mean it is somewhat similar to the tragedy of the commons is that individuals are driven by selfish interests (in this case not voting is easier than voting). Voting is for the common good but if everyone acted out of their own self interest, no one would vote and our society would collapse.

Perhaps more accurately I should have said it is the paradox of voting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_voting

I see. I agree with you that voting/not voting has some aspect similar to the tragedy of the commons. Of course, I was never arguing for not voting or saying that there was nothing about it that was similar to the TOTC. I was simply stating that one's vote/don't vote decision is unlikely to cause millions of others to make the same decision.

Personally I would like to see more intelligent and more informed voters as opposed to just more voters. But I suppose that is another topic altogether.

Of course there is no causal relationship but there is a positive correlation.

Politicians pull a lot of corrupt and unethical nonsense because they don't think we're really paying attention. Lower vote total would just embolden them to be even worse than they already are

You and your neighbors' votes may matter none, a little, some, or a lot depending how you are gerrymandered beforehand. It isn't a clear cut yes or no matter or not for a given individual.

"The Lesser of 2 evils is still evil." Ralph Nader

Your money is more important than your vote. Unlike the vote you can give and give. If you can donate through your shell company that is even better. Not only can you determine who wins but you can write laws for them to pass. Also if you back some shady organization like ALEC you can get any law you want passed in any state you care about.

The Thing from Another Thing wrote:

Politicians pull a lot of corrupt and unethical nonsense because they don't think we're really paying attention. Lower vote total would just embolden them to be even worse than they already are

Eh. I think that higher voter turnout gives the politicians the appearance of a mandate. There are too many issues with too few candidates and a paltry number of political parties which makes most any election a farce. Let's say I feel strongly about ending farm subsidies, allowing more immigration and legalizing drugs. Who can I vote for? If any candidate shares those views he'll have no chance of getting any credible party's nomination. Again, who can I vote for?

Nobody.

Well, then, I guess I should find someone I agree with on most issues. But then you're buying into the corrupt system with few real alternatives. That's how we get people like Barrack Obama and George Bush - two guys that agree with one another on most important issues. They want a police state in a constant of war and up to its eyeballs in debt.

No thanks.

How long have you lived in Florida?

One of my favorite SNL Weekend Updates was from maybe 10 years ago. They cited a news story on how some state level election was settled by 3 votes.

The punchline was ... "proving the theory that your vote STILL doesn't matter!"

There is a real difference between the two major parties as far as the "social issues" are concerned, and one of them would roll things back to the unenlightened past if given the chance. Choices do matter.

True Patriotic Citzen wrote:

There is a real difference between the two major parties as far as the "social issues" are concerned, and one of them would roll things back to the unenlightened past if given the chance. Choices do matter.

Eh.

Both parties (on a national level) support the war on drugs, traditional marriage (i.e. no gay marriage), support abortion rights in some form and are very similar on a whole host of other issues.

Sure the Democrats supported repealing don't ask don't tell and some Republicans talk about limiting abortion (although despite holding the presidency and both houses of Congress nothing was ever accomplished), but really, on the important issues they're about the same. The drug war really is incredibly important and has a gigantic impact on our society and both parties are on the same page about that, which is why we've had a 10 fold increase in people going to jail for drugs and why the US has the highest percentage of citizens in prison of any country in the world.

But hey, they'll throw you a bone every now and then so you think there's a meaningful difference.

chocchips wrote:

What do you say to someone who thinks their vote in a state or federal election actually matters?

Why do you need to say anything to them? They think one thing. You think a different thing. Who cares? Are you really so insecure that you need to convince others that you're right even though their thoughts on the subject don't impact you at all?

It's your civic duty you degenerate piece of crap, so get down there and vote.

I say get out and vote:

"Democrat Dan Arthrell wins House District 71 by 3 votes"

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120404_16_A4_CUTLIN32625

If you don't vote you can't complain.

nonamecomplainer wrote:

If you don't vote you can't complain.

Actually, you can.