are you offended by the Tough Mudder races that are out there?

These types of races are more challenging and rewarding than traditional running. I have yet to see any serious defense against this argument.

I don't have an issue with it. It isn't really my scene (I might do one at one point for variety or something) but I've never heard someone say it was tougher than pure running. Even if someone thought that, so what? I don't run because I think it's the toughest sport out there or that I'm some kind of fringe hardcore badass because I can use the phrase "easy 10 miler" and mean it. I run because I think it's fun, and if someone doesn't, that's cool with me. I hate lifting, but lots of people think lifting is awesome.

Diff'rent strokes, OP.

Sort of indifferent, but just noticed the other day how times have changed. Say 15-25 yr ago, back in the day, you pick up a copy of RT and you'd see Asbury Park 10K, Cascade Runoff, Subaru 4 miler, etc. listed in the races and that'd give you something to aim for. Prize money, deep fields. Good stuff, competition to aim for.

Now 20% of the races on the calendar seem to be the Tough Mudder races. Fun maybe but ultimately boring. Inane.

Whatever.

Precious Roy wrote:

My only beef is that they are generally run by for profit groups and compete with races that are fund raisers for non-profits. I have seen a few long time 5k/8k/10k events lose numbers between the marathon/half marathon craze, two day relays and mud/obstacle races. The mud/obstacle races are growing very fast and advertise heavily in the same publications that non-profit road races use. Yeah, I know, free market blah blah balh. But I do not want to see local road races diminish as a result of a fad.

Why don't these races take advantage of the fad and use it to run their own similar "tough mudder" style race that'll raise more money and awareness? Seems pretty common sense.

Why don't you "Lighten up Francis". My post was meant to be primarily sarcastic and if anything it was more directed at her coach who is the one that was calling it "sprint" training.

I know exactly where I fall in the spectrum of the running world and I'm pretty sure my grasp of that spectrum is way better than the average LetsRuner's.

I just scrolled through one of the courses. It looks like the courses are knockoffs from that Wipeout show or that scene from Stripes when John Candy falls on his nuts. Perfect for Tri tools and ultra runners.

reading comprehension wrote:

These types of races are more challenging and rewarding than traditional running. I have yet to see any serious defense against this argument.

More challenging depends on how hard you are trying. If you are a young person of average health and would otherwise walk/jog a 5k in 30 minutes, an obstacle course is more challenging. But that's only because you are not challenging yourself to train for and run the 5k at a competitive time. For an average person, a sub-20 (19/18/17/16/15 or whatever depending on age, etc.) is more challenging than just getting through an obstacle course.

Way to duck and run "another shoe guy". When you make an a-hole post and get called on it, it's very easy to say you were just being sarcastic. It's the letsrun way. I stand by my post. Every word of it.

Francis, when fewer people run, it makes all of us look more important and special. I'm sure you and I can agree on this, right?

My beef with tough mudder races is that it potentially takes away from the glory of competing in classic local road races and marathons, such as your 14-21min 5k types (top men and women on the local scene). Most letsrunners (current and former XC/track men and women) fall into this category.

Instead, you've got your 22min-35min Frat boy types doing tough mudders races. Some of the banner ads for these races say "marathons are boring. That's why there's tough mudder." of course, if you aren't a competitive runner and just doing a marathon to finish it (not running for time), marathons can be boring ways to lose weight. The tough mudder is instead a 10mile with all kinds of silly obstacles.

At the very least, you've got to at least admit that it's a business threat to conventional road races and their administration.

Francis is the one who needs to lighten up.

Lighten up Francis wrote:

Way to duck and run "another shoe guy". When you make an a-hole post and get called on it, it's very easy to say you were just being sarcastic. It's the letsrun way. I stand by my post. Every word of it.

Kirkaz wrote:

My beef with tough mudder races is that it potentially takes away from the glory of competing in classic local road races and marathons, such as your 14-21min 5k types (top men and women on the local scene). Most letsrunners (current and former XC/track men and women) fall into this category.

Instead, you've got your 22min-35min Frat boy types doing tough mudders races. Some of the banner ads for these races say "marathons are boring. That's why there's tough mudder." of course, if you aren't a competitive runner and just doing a marathon to finish it (not running for time), marathons can be boring ways to lose weight. The tough mudder is instead a 10mile with all kinds of silly obstacles.

At the very least, you've got to at least admit that it's a business threat to conventional road races and their administration.

And so what? Glory of competing? Road racing has gotten stale and this may be a new way to promote fitness and fun. I've done one of these races and if you go all out, it is way harder than a road race. You are using more muscle groups and the body overall becomes fatigue more quickly.

F the people that do them you little whiner. They are more enjoyable to the average public than a flat, same-ole 10k.

Now you really do need to "Lighten up Francis". I never mentioned laughing at her and I think the fact that she is excited about training for something - anything - is great. Wouldn't really have fit to put that in my initial post though. You are the one who is reading way too much into my initial lighthearted bit of sarcasm.

I had nothing to do with starting this thread, so that part doesn't apply to me at all. I'm looking forward to doing a mud run at some point because I'm sure it will be a ton of fun. I haven't had to deal with a "Cross-fitter" directly so I don't really have an opinion about that.

You are the one being an over-reacting a-hole.

Kirkaz wrote:

At the very least, you've got to at least admit that it's a business threat to conventional road races and their administration.

I really don't think that it is. What percentage of people have ever done a road race? What percentage do them regularly? It's got to be in the single digits. There are lots more people to pull in.

Tough Mudder etc. may be as much of a boon to the road running industry by getting people interested in running races as it is a detriment by siphoning people off for different events.

Most hashers run road races. Mud runs sort of seem like hashing gone corporate.

I couldn't care less if people like, and run, Tough Mudder races. Not my thing but so what if others like them? To be honest, if they were competitive (ie winner and losers) I'd be a little more interested. Kind of like a XC course on steroids.

You're probably right that I'm overreacting. I know you're right that I'm an a-hole. However, I don't change my position post to post in a desperate attempt to be right at all costs. I incorrectly inferred that you started the thread, my apologies. What pissed me off wasn't even so much your individual post, but a long string of posts from so many on this subject. Lighthearted sarcasm can be funny and entertaining...but on letsrun it is always bashing people that aren't very fast or people that engage in an activity other than what is deemed acceptable here. At some point lighthearted sarcasm becomes a condescending pile of crap.

So you took the brunt of my frustration with the group...sorry.

xtr wrote:

Tough mudders are similar to ultras. They give people something to brag about, even though slogging through an event is hardly an "accomplishment"...especially when there are few few serious athletes there.

Some ultra runners are actually good athletes, but There's some truth to what you say.

Wait, what?! People are apologizing to each other?! Where am I?! What did you do to the boards?!

It's the letsrun way...

Anyone that does something other than running is a poser, if you dont run or work out you are a lazy piece of garbage.

If you DO run but can't run a sub15 min 5k you're just a sorry fanny pack wearin' hobby jogger.