I don't understand why anyone is excited about a 3:49.66 from Jock. Webb's 800 is within a second of Jock's, but his mile is faster than Jock's 1500. I'll be excited when Jock runs sub-3:40, no sooner.
I don't understand why anyone is excited about a 3:49.66 from Jock. Webb's 800 is within a second of Jock's, but his mile is faster than Jock's 1500. I'll be excited when Jock runs sub-3:40, no sooner.
Is there anyone else who is impressed with Jock as an 800 on those terms alone? It is great that he is working his strength and it will surely pay off but being excited about a 3:49, or even 3:45 is like being excited about his hill repeats workouts or his bench press. I look forward to seeing him race in June when he actually runs times that Olympians run. 3:49 does not qualify as that.
Lyndon Larouche wrote:
Lyndon Larouche wrote:Rodal's best 1500 was 3:47 and he won a gold medal. I think Jock is fast enough at 1500
The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:
That must be a typo, because Rodal ran 3:37 (and 46.5 out of blocks).
Correct. My mistake
Rodal focused on speed/speed endurance up until '96, with a PB of 347 . In '97 he started endurance training, listening to those who said, "If you ran 1:42, think what you could do in the 15". He managed 337, got injured, and was never the same.
Thanks, that's an interesting story. That sucks though, because Rodal was a total beast, especially considering that his PR was from the Olympic final! It was a really magnificent race too.
I guess most people on here then are just quite dense and unable to understand why Jock running 3:49 is impressive. The reason is last year his PR was 3:57 and he ran 1:44, this year he is 8 seconds faster and typically when you get fast in one event, you get faster in another event. This is the same reason that for instance a miler type guy would be excited about splitting a big PR in a 4x4, sure the time might suck compared to what a good 400 guy would do but it shows that your ability in an off event has improved and that usually bodes well for success in your best events. God you people are dumb, obviously the 3:49 isnt that impressive of a time, but it shows he's a hell of a lot better in the 1500 event so he'll prob be better in the 800 too.
man, you'll have to get used to the fact that most letsrun posters are very dumb and they don't understand the concepts of event specific runners. you can't compare alan webb to charles jock. yeah alan webb ran a very impressive 800m but he's one of the most versatile runners the USA has ever had. he ran a very fast 10k time also, but that doesn't mean a 10k runner with a similar pr should be able to run a comparable 800 or mile time as his pr.
what they don't realise is charles jock is a 400/800m runner and when you are this type of runner you won't a very versatile runner.
it would be like if centro ran a 48 400m, surely that would bode well for his finishing speed in a tactical 1500m but it wouldn't be anything special compared to a true 400m runner or a 400/800m guys 400 time like a jock.
so his 3:49 is very impressive when put into persepective the specific runner he is, no ones saying its a great time.
this guy will run 1:43 this yr mark my word!
Raptured wrote:
I don't understand why anyone is excited about a 3:49.66 from Jock. Webb's 800 is within a second of Jock's, but his mile is faster than Jock's 1500. I'll be excited when Jock runs sub-3:40, no sooner.
I don't know for sure if Jock will ever have more medals than Webb - I would be willing to bet yes - but I do know for sure that he sure as hell won't have less than Webb.
george oscar bluth wrote:
Raptured wrote:I don't understand why anyone is excited about a 3:49.66 from Jock. Webb's 800 is within a second of Jock's, but his mile is faster than Jock's 1500. I'll be excited when Jock runs sub-3:40, no sooner.
I don't know for sure if Jock will ever have more medals than Webb - I would be willing to bet yes - but I do know for sure that he sure as hell won't have less than Webb.
He certainly won't have $hit in the 1500, that's for sure...
Nice name btw.
SmallTimeTC wrote:
I guess most people on here then are just quite dense and unable to understand why Jock running 3:49 is impressive. The reason is last year his PR was 3:57 and he ran 1:44, this year he is 8 seconds faster and typically when you get fast in one event, you get faster in another event.
operative word here is "typically," and in this case i think jock defies the "type" you're talking about. why use a 1500 time to assess what you clearly think is an 400/800 runner? i think jock's time in the 1500 last year--and the same could be this year--simply shows he's not a 1500 runner and doesn't really know how to run the event, and therefore has very little to do with being a predictor for his 800 time. he may have been in 3:49 shape last year when he ran 3:57, but maybe inexperience held him back, not fitness. we simply don't know.
his 400 time will have more to do with predicting his 800 time, and, strangely enough, his 800 time will predict his 800 time (gasp! newsflash!). i haven't talked to coach o'boyle, who's coached a few studs in his day, but i'm betting he's having jock run 1500s not because he thinks they're "preparing" him for a fast 800, but because he's focusing on strength training and there's no reason to run 800s in march for a potential olympian during an olympic year. if jock runs a fast 1500, WHICH HE HASN'T, that's icing; if he doesn't (he could run 4 flat 1500s until the end of april, throw in a few 15:34 5ks like my 50 year old teammate did at ben brown, and it won't mean a thing), as long as training is going well, he'll still have an opportunity to run 1:43s in june/july/august when he needs to.
call me dense and unimpressed, but that's my story and i'm sticking to it...
I think the improved 1500m time would give him confidence in his strength progression.
He may now feel better about running a more reserved first 400 in an 800 race and help with his finish.
He has already gone out as fast as he ever will need to in an 800.
He may be on his way to 1:42 in the future.
ZOT!
Please come to Rutgers you could be our top 1500 meter runner.
Improving basic speed (400m) and improving endurance (1500m) aren't a great thing to use as comparison. The fact that he's an 400/800 type means that 1500m doesn't help predict performance as well as an improvement in 400m time would. Same as 800/1500 runner running a 20 sec 5k PR down to 14:00 wouldn't show us much other than improved endurance in a 3:40 guy. If he can still split a 44.xx later in the year (like last year) and his endurance has improved than yes it'd be easy to predict that his 800m time will go down. I would expect him to improve... yes, but a PR in an event that he doesn't run in peak condition is really hard to correlate with anything.
In short, your analogy to a 1500m guy running a pr in a 4x4 is poor because showing improvement in speed is exponentially harder than showing improvement in endurance.
socalcush is right. Jock is just catching up to where he likely should be for 1500m, and is simply now getting in the races to prove it.
Jumping to the conclusion that this will make for improvement in his 800m (absolute time) is specious at best.
What this will help is with his ability to deal with succesive rounds for the Olympics (should he make it there) - 3-4 rounds, each faster than the previous (presumably)round, all in 4-5 days.
Where's coach D on this one? i was really expecting him to jerk off to this one!
This guy is a fast twitch short distance/sprinter runner. He done after 2 laps.
Jock comes from the land of Kaki.
Tell me how many finals KD has made, that's a very poor comparison. Jock should be closer compared to Kaki.
Captain of Moss wrote:
Please come to Rutgers you could be our top 1500 meter runner.
I heard rutgers will get a lazy 800m runner next year who plans to also run faster than 3:49 in the 1500. Just sayin'
Captain of Moss wrote:
Please come to Rutgers you could be our top 1500 meter runner.
I heard rutgers will get a lazy 1:52split 800m runner next year who plans to also run faster than 3:49 in the 1500. Just sayin'
6geniuh wrote:
Captain of Moss wrote:Please come to Rutgers you could be our top 1500 meter runner.
I heard rutgers will get a lazy 1:52split 800m runner next year who plans to also run faster than 3:49 in the 1500. Just sayin'
..clever