Agreed, Deanouk. I understand what the IAAF is going for with these criteria, in that they want to keep the Peter Ronos & Nils Schumanns of the world ineligible. But I think they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater if someone like Herb Elliott can't make it but Saif Saeed Shaheen can. Elliott has a good case for being the best miler of all, while Shaheen is IMHO no better than 10th all-time in the steeple, well below modern-era ineligibles like Ezekiel Kemboi or Brimin Kipruto.
NUD wrote:
Eligible post-WWII distance runners, 800 & up (no marathon)
Zatopek
Coe
El G
Aouita
Kuts
Keino
Viren
Snell
Morceli
Wilson Kipketer
Shaheen
Moses Kiptanui
Geb (after retirement)
Bekele (after retirement)
Did you mean you were just leaving the marathon off? I ask because Abebe Bikila would be eligible.
The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:
Did you mean you were just leaving the marathon off? I ask because Abebe Bikila would be eligible.
That's right. I didn't have a list of marathon WRs handy.
Going off Wikipedia now, it appears Bikila is the sole marathoner who qualifies based on that event alone (Geb makes it because of his track accomplishments). Maybe the IAAF will waive the WR requirement, as WRs in the marathon weren't recognized before Tergat's. Even then, it looks like that only puts Abera and Cierpinski in.
In the high hurdles, Renaldo Nehemiah, Greg Foster and Allen Johnson would not be eligible.
Allen Johnson has an Olympic Gold, four WC golds and missed the WR by 0.01 seconds.
It does seem like rules that punish people for having been in the era before World Championships are kind of silly. I mean, a guy could have won an Olympic gold and then ruled atop his event for the next three years and STILL not make this Hall.
And obviously they have to totally ignore people like Cornelius Warmerdam and Rudolf Harbig whose dominating eras were in the years after 1936 and before 1948, when there were no Olympics.
My critique wrote:
Requiring a WR is questionable, especially considering that so many women's WR may be unattainable by anyone who isn't doping.
Agreed. None of the women WR from 100m to 1500m is clean and neither is the 10000. Also in terms of Marathon, we discussed this before, no one will break Paulas record as long as we live but there may come extraordinary Marathon runners....they'll be denied.
Also at least 2 Gold Medals, either Worlds or Olympics. Lol at that. Worlds is so much easier - it comes every two years instead of four and plenty elite athletes skip the worlds...
Deanouk wrote:
If this is going to be for the all-time greats, then I think the criteria is very reasonable on the whole. You can't include any athlete that has won a single Olympic or World gold, otherwise there would be hundreds eligible, and it would diminish the whole thing.
Or you could pick athletes based on merit, using gold medals and world records as guidelines and not hard and fast requirements.
Paula Radcliffe is not eligible under these rules (unless she gets a Gold in London, which I think we have to agree is a bit of a long shot). Neither are Joan Benoit, Ingrid Kristiansen, or Grete Waitz.
So, the rules exclude four of the greatest female marathon runners ever. The rules are, therefore, nonsense. They are crap. They are bogus and foolish.
toro wrote:
In the high hurdles, Renaldo Nehemiah, Greg Foster and Allen Johnson would not be eligible.
Allen Johnson has an Olympic Gold, four WC golds and missed the WR by 0.01 seconds.
Skeets did hold the WR at one time.
TrackCoach wrote:
toro wrote:In the high hurdles, Renaldo Nehemiah, Greg Foster and Allen Johnson would not be eligible.
Allen Johnson has an Olympic Gold, four WC golds and missed the WR by 0.01 seconds.
Skeets did hold the WR at one time.
Still not eligible--no gold medals. Foster has two Olympic Golds but no world record.
TrackCoach wrote:
toro wrote:In the high hurdles, Renaldo Nehemiah, Greg Foster and Allen Johnson would not be eligible.
Allen Johnson has an Olympic Gold, four WC golds and missed the WR by 0.01 seconds.
Skeets did hold the WR at one time.
He doesn't have the hardware.
Is this track only? Wouldn't the XC medals give Tergat the eligibility he needs?
I don't think World XC counts, but some of Nurmi's medals are from Olympic XC back when they had it.
The Answer My Friend wrote:
... And obviously they have to totally ignore people like Cornelius Warmerdam and Rudolf Harbig whose dominating eras were in the years after 1936 and before 1948, when there were no Olympics.
Yeah, but they're probably not even fast enough to walk on to a top 10 NCAA team today anyways, so no big loss really.
someone had to do it wrote:
No Jim Ryun, Frank Shorter, Roger Bannister, Bill Rodgers, Joanie Benoit, Mary Slaney....
Let it go. Slaney choked in the Olympics when it counted and tried to blame it on a teenager instead of face the fact that she just couldn't hack it. Rodgers dominated Boston/NYC in an era before the East Africans even heard of the word marathon.
Ryun, Shorter, Bannister, and Joanie should probably be included though.
Red WHITE and Blue wrote:
The Answer My Friend wrote:... And obviously they have to totally ignore people like Cornelius Warmerdam and Rudolf Harbig whose dominating eras were in the years after 1936 and before 1948, when there were no Olympics.
Yeah, but they're probably not even fast enough to walk on to a top 10 NCAA team today anyways, so no big loss really.
I'm sure most of those programs would let a 1:46 guy walk on.
Red WHITE and Blue wrote:
Let it go. Slaney choked in the Olympics when it counted and tried to blame it on a teenager instead of face the fact that she just couldn't hack it. Rodgers dominated Boston/NYC in an era before the East Africans even heard of the word marathon.
Yeah, well the East Africans are dominating now, but that's before the era of Indian dominance (marathons in the last half of the 21st century will all be about the Bengali Boys).
Usain Bolt looks fast now, but when you compare him to the great New Guinea sprinters that we are going to see in about 40 years, well, let's just say that his record isn't quite so impressive.
Which is my way of saying that it's a pretty silly argument.
Foster had no Olympic Golds or a world record.
But he had an Olympic Silver and 3 WC Golds.
Nehemiah broke the WR three times and held the record for 10 years straight.
His 1981 WR is still only .05s off the current WR.
Such rules are just rediculous. Carl Lewis would have based on just his long jump career no chance to be included? Rediculous. No chance for Ron Clarke? Rediculous. No chance for all the single Gold medallists before 1983? Just reciculous.
It's just impossible to put a whole career in just two numbers, And especially the full impact the athlete has had. Just one word: rediculous.
said88 wrote:
It's just impossible to put a whole career in just two numbers, And especially the full impact the athlete has had. Just one word: rediculous.
Hmmmm
said88 wrote: Just one word: rediculous.
In another word: rudonkulous.