Umm... What 5k record?
Umm... What 5k record?
I sure hope Fernandez doesn't click on this thread by mistake. This is depressing.
Looking at the times and more importantly at the depth of ncaa running and I begin to question, was this past xc season the best field in ncaa history? It's mind boggling to think someone like luke puskedra who just ran 1:01:36 for a half marathon "only" finished 6th. Looking at the top 7 alone proves the quality
Lawi: 13:08/3:55
Derrick: 13:19
Lenny: 13:19
Levins: 7:45/3:57.16
Mo:?
Puskedra: 1:01:36
Estrada: 7:44/3:55
Everyone on that list has shown this indoor season they could be in contenbtion for the win any other year with the exception of Ahmed who has not raced this year. It doesn't even include Chelimo(7:49), Hill(7:43), German(13:25), etc
love's a pony wrote:
Blame Dave Smith. The guy ruined GF like Raczko ruined Webb.
It is my belief that German was ruined in High School and was running in college on borrowed time. In H.S. he was running mega-miles and tripling/quadrupling races in track meets. Sure - he ran record times, but it hurt him in the long run (pun not intended).
Maybe Fernandez is not the world beating runner we once thought. He is merely one of those talented runners that make the Olympic Trials finals and manages to finished in the 10 top ten.
Ashley Madison wrote:
love's a pony wrote:Blame Dave Smith. The guy ruined GF like Raczko ruined Webb.
It is my belief that German was ruined in High School and was running in college on borrowed time. In H.S. he was running mega-miles and tripling/quadrupling races in track meets. Sure - he ran record times, but it hurt him in the long run (pun not intended).
This is false. Do some research. Look up interviews with him and his HS coach regarding his HS training. Or email his HS coach.
Did you vote for Obama last election by any chance?
Not every high school star becomes a world beater. Fernandez is just a solid sub 4 minute miler in the tradition of somebody like Jason Lunn and Michael Stember. I don't think he is going to be a 3:50 miler.
enthuasist wrote:
It doesn't even include Chelimo(7:49), Hill(7:43), German(13:25), etc
German is a long way from 13:25 now, he's just a 4:05 or whatever guy now. But, this kind of depth isn't unusual like the Colorado guy who ran 13:18 and didn't win any titles, or McDougal who ran 13:20 and never did better than 3rd/4th in track I think, and even Galen Rupp was shut out of titles until his senior year.
Who says he was running mega-miles? Other than you, that is.
Ashley Madison wrote:
It is my belief that German was ruined in High School and was running in college on borrowed time. In H.S. he was running mega-miles and tripling/quadrupling races in track meets. Sure - he ran record times, but it hurt him in the long run (pun not intended).
Does anyone from OK State run faster than they did in HS? I mean significantly faster? Smith looks like a good recruiter who meat-grinds and anyone left has survived, but not really improved.
Richard Nibbler wrote:
Does anyone from OK State run faster than they did in HS? I mean significantly faster? Smith looks like a good recruiter who meat-grinds and anyone left has survived, but not really improved.
Colby Lowe?
come at me BRO wrote:
Richard Nibbler wrote:Does anyone from OK State run faster than they did in HS? I mean significantly faster? Smith looks like a good recruiter who meat-grinds and anyone left has survived, but not really improved.
Colby Lowe?
Ryan Vail?
Tom Farrell?
love's a pony wrote:
Blame Dave Smith. The guy ruined GF like Raczko ruined Webb.
Raczko MADE Webb. Raczko coached Webb from the late 90s until 2007, except the year he was as Michigan.
Seriously... how do you go from that insane of a season to what he is doing now?
Perhaps even stranger... he's had 2 solid cross seasons since then, but hasn't translated that success to the track. Meanwhile, guys he bested in cross or was right behind in 2009 (I believe it was 2009 that he was top 10, right?) and 2011 (11th) were/are destroying him in the track.
I view that even more bizarre. Just a few months ago he was the 11th best runner in college at 10k cross, with a strong 1500 background. Yet he would lose to Miles Batty by 10 seconds in a mile right now (who he beat in cross).
No one running his times on the track would every DREAM of finishing 11th at cross... probably ever in their career. He is running times on the track that would suggest he couldn't qualify for Cross Nationals as an individual... let alone actually end up 11th!
he's only run ONE indoor meet this season.. give it a couple more. If he runs 3:56 next time out everyone will be eating their words. He runs 4:04 then its a legitimate to say somethings wrong.
Also, you can't compare XC nationals success to track success, its two totally different seasons at different times of the yr. You can attest this also to what workouts coaches are giving their athletes in XC as apposed to track. Honestly, some coaches are much better at coaching and structuring training for XC than track and vise versa....
Look at 2010... German was 8th in 29:49, and matthew centrowitz was 10th in 30:01. We def don't want to compare their 2011 track seasons that followed because their is no comparison. So this is proof that XC success doesn't neccessarily transition to track. Now with that said, i think german should have at least run better in those track seasons but like i said u don't know what these coaches are doing in XC and in track. This dave smith guy may have great XC workouts and know exactly how to peak his athletes, but for track he may not have it together. His runners never really have great success in track anyway so i agree that German's freshman yr was in part the fitness he had his senior yr carrying over. Once a setback occured he lost that fitness and hasn't really gained it back the same way.. XC... somewhat, track.. not even close
at the end of the day.... wrote:
he's only run ONE indoor meet this season.. give it a couple more. If he runs 3:56 next time out everyone will be eating their words. He runs 4:04 then its a legitimate to say somethings wrong.
It has been three years since his last good track performance. Not sure that we really need to see "one more" in order to conclude that something is definitely wrong.
What more can be said about this guy? Everyone and their brothers uncle wants this guy to put it to the Kenyans and every other pretender. And for a while, it really looked like he was going to be the one to do it! Yea, Miles got his record.......being six years older than German was at the time he ran his 3:55! The flippant aspects of "Natural" talent, good coaching, bad coaching, blue collar mentalities.... Who the hell knows? I think, we, as running fans/trolls are actually to blame for Germans stagnation! Life moves on, he had his day in the sun. Now it's time to look for a decent job right? Find a partner, have a family and then start looking back at what he could have been?
None of us has the right to step inside his head but I wonder, I really wonder, if he realizes that what he can achieve, being who he is, is so so much bigger than he could ever have imagined! Hummmmmmm?
At the end of the day, German's problems are clearly mental, not physical. So anyone who is saying he's burnt, clearly doesn't realize the talent and fitness that is required to coast to two top 11 NCAA cross finishes the last 2 years. That doesn't suggest someone who is physically fried.
Bottom line, he obviously can't deal with the pressure of being all alone on the track, with no where to hide. In cross he can chill in the pack, has the safety and comfort of CL and his teammates there. He can "run for the team" and doesn't have to be exposed, all alone, on a track. Many of us bashed Smith for holding German back in cross. I now think that he's probably quite smart for doing so. By holding him back, it kept the pressure off. Smith was doing it for German's mental well being... not because of some stupid pack-running/help your teammates philosophy. Without telling German to run for the team, he goes out for the win and is exposed... exposing OK State to a dnf or blowup.
I guess looking back... with the fall in cross country his freshman year, we can see the mental weakness/cracking from pressure from then. Its strange, because it "went away" that track season. One could argue that it didn't really go away, and he just wasn't stressed when he was winning miles by 10 seconds, or when he was part of the USATF 5000 where he had no expectations placed on him (so why would he buckle?). But then that doesn't hold any water what so ever when you consider his NCAA 1500 meter win.
I don't know what triggered it, but its obviously been there. He has hit a mental barrier. The best training he could have right now is mental training. Get that kid a good sports psychologist and you will see things turn around with no change in his training. Unfortunately, the mind is the hardest thing to overcome... hopefully he can do it.
Good post. Lots of speculation, but interesting take.