The trouble is I already lost much of extra fat I used to have. I now have the same weight I had when I was in my teens, I have muscular legs and maybe heavy bones.
asfas wrote:
Lose the extra 10-25lbs your lugging around and your calves will not hurt as much and you will run faster.
How long have you been training? Your are most likely in a different league in terms of talent.
gulpy gulper wrote:
Aged 32 years, I recently ran a 1:10 half with 30-50mpw training. Only two of my weeks of training were at 50mpw. Most were around 35mpw.
So yes, I still could have run sub 1:20 with slightly less training. 10 minutes is a lot of time. But my PRs are 4:06/8:19/14:19. Legspeed and VO2 max help a lot. But you must be born with and develop these.
This is of no use to me as you are definitely more talented than me.
Last Runner wrote:
In my mid 40's I ran in the low-mid 35's for 10K on every other day training. In between running days, I did not cross train.
But in my best days in my 30's I was training every day 60-70 mpw and running in the 32's and 33's.
Good point, thank you, that has not occurred to me.
Maximus wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:He's doing 30 miles a wk and running just under 37 how's he goig to suddenly go under 35
He could do it with a lot of speed work but that will probably get him injured more than doing 50 miles a wk
What kind of statement is that? I have seen it fairly equal, with some runners getting injured from too much mileage and others getting injured from too much speed work. It depends on the person and they need to find out what works for them. The OP has already said he gets injured by increasing his mileage. Maybe he is doing it wrong, but why not experiment with higher intensity and see if that works for him. It isn't like he needs to get this done in the next month or two. Experimentation is how people learn what works for them; not what it says in some book or a coach that thinks his way is the only way.
To the OP, many people have run under 35 minutes on 30 miles a week. I ran under 32 minutes on 25 miles a week as a 16 year old and my brother ran his PR of low 31 minutes by running about 30-35 miles a week with most of those miles coming on two days due to work issues. For both of us, almost all the miles were pretty high quality.
How long did it take you and what age are you?
steve "red" wrote:
34:04 (also 34:18) off 4 days per week and 25 miles per week. Long run 10 miles, 5 miles fartlek, speed at track 5 miles total, 5 mile tempo run Good luck!
Great, the same question again, how long did it take you?
mileage isnt everything wrote:
steve "red" wrote:34:04 (also 34:18) off 4 days per week and 25 miles per week. Long run 10 miles, 5 miles fartlek, speed at track 5 miles total, 5 mile tempo run Good luck!
This^
I ran 35:10 right before I was 40 doing one race(5k-10K), one 5 mile tempo, and one day of intervals (200-800s). With warmups and cooldowns, I tried to hit 10 miles each day. I replaced all easy running with stairmaster workouts.
I am currently mid 40s and training for a sub 3 hour marathon avg 27 miles/week. Just ran a strong 15 mile race that suggests I am very close right now. I have been running 1 or 2 moderate runs during the week and a longer run on the weekends (usually a trail race) and killing myself on a couple workouts a week on the eliptical.
This week I will run 10 miles tomorrow and a half marathon trail race on saturday. With a couple mile warmup, that will give me 25 miles this week after 33 last week.
Paul The Runner wrote:
Good point, thank you, that has not occurred to me.
Maximus wrote:What kind of statement is that? I have seen it fairly equal, with some runners getting injured from too much mileage and others getting injured from too much speed work. It depends on the person and they need to find out what works for them. The OP has already said he gets injured by increasing his mileage. Maybe he is doing it wrong, but why not experiment with higher intensity and see if that works for him. It isn't like he needs to get this done in the next month or two. Experimentation is how people learn what works for them; not what it says in some book or a coach that thinks his way is the only way.
To the OP, many people have run under 35 minutes on 30 miles a week. I ran under 32 minutes on 25 miles a week as a 16 year old and my brother ran his PR of low 31 minutes by running about 30-35 miles a week with most of those miles coming on two days due to work issues. For both of us, almost all the miles were pretty high quality.
Get some help or go back jogging.
I run without walking or stopping. I speed up at the end of some runs, last 1 - 2 miles at 6:00 - 6:30 minutes per mile. No intervals, rather natural fartlek runs as there are a few hills where I run.
From200mTo8K wrote:
I suggest doing tempo runs and LT pace cruise intervals if you aren't already. I'm curious if you use the Galloway run-walk method on your long runs, if you would not develop the aches and pains (9 minutes jogging slow:1 minute walking). I expect laughter at that last notion, but I still am curious as to the results.
So the closest training to what you do I have heard about that might get you there is:
M=10k easy.
T=WU + 1500m to 3k + CD
W=10k easy.
T=WU + 800m to 1500m + CD
F=10k easy.
S=no running.
S=WU + 3k to 5k + CD
800m to 5k are "medium to high intensity" single run efforts. No intervals. No long runs. 55k per week usually.
The guy who trains this way was trying to run 5k under 17:00 at 49 years old, which should get you under 36:00 and might get you near 35:00 at 35 years old.
I would say that the only real difference is he trains 6 days a week. He practices paces from mile pace for 800m on a high intensity day down to HM race pace on a medium 5k day.
Paul The Runner wrote:
How long have you been training? Your are most likely in a different league in terms of talent.
Started training in 9th grade. Probably averaged 30-40mpw throughout hs. In college, averaged 60mpw when I set those PRs. Throughout my 20s and 30s, averaged 20-50mpw. So that's like 20 years of training!
What surface do you run on
If you are on roads switch to trails/ grass you will be able to get more miles in without getting those leg problems
You will also benefit if you start training with a group
Bruce Tulloh article on low mileage training. He includes a sample 10K schedule (4 workouts a week)
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/time-efficient-running-run-less-to-run-faster-31404
If you are a man and can't run 35:00 on 30 miles a week then for various reasons you're in the wrong sport.
Newport Richie wrote:
If you are a man and can't run 35:00 on 30 miles a week then for various reasons you're in the wrong sport.
Who are you bigshot?
Compared to the elite we are all joggers including you
Paul The Runner wrote:
I ran 35:10 right before I was 40 doing one race(5k-10K), one 5 mile tempo, and one day of intervals (200-800s). With warmups and cooldowns, I tried to hit 10 miles each day. I replaced all easy running with stairmaster workouts.
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I didn't run for 18 years from 19 to 37. After I started back, I ran mostly 5ks and just got in the 18s within about 3 months. The following spring I ran a couple marathons and then got down in the high 17s that summer. The next winter I ran 2 marathons and 2 50ks and then had to take 8 weeks off. Once back, I trained for about 5 weeks and then in the course of the following 6 weeks, I went from 18:30 to 17:15 5k and 36:20 10k. About 3 months later, I was running 17 flat and low 35s and a 1:19 half on the above training.
When I first started racing (20) I was running around your times off 30-40mpw. I jumped up to 60 and soon started running 35s then gradually worked up to 80 and ran 34s and pushed out to 100mpw and eventually ran 33 (23-26). I came back down to 60-70 and dropped off to the 34s before long. With family and work commitments I dropped to around 50mpw in my 30s and could no longer break 35 except once a few weeks after a marathon. By 40 I was down to 30-40mpw and running 36mins again.
There were all the usual ingredients in the training pretty much regardless of mileage. The main difference was always the overall training volume (over an extended period).
I think UKcoach nailed your biggest issue and that is the attitude. My attitude on how to get better was to push as hard as I could. I trained with lots of the top runners and figured I had no where near their talent so I needed to train really hard to make up for it. It didn't make me a top runner but at least I got close to maximising my ability.
I didn't provide you with enough information. I was still running after my PR's and wasn't starting from scratch before my 15 weeks of Half Marathon training. I consider my "official" training to begin when I start track workouts.
As for training intensities, buy Daniel's book, run a mile on the track as fast as you can, and then use his VDOT formula to determine you training intensities based on your current mile time.
Run your workouts based on your current fitness, not your goal time. As your fitness improves, then increase your intensities.
Hope you find this useful. It works for me, but I'm just trying to stay in decent shape and race around 6min pace for a Half.
Coach Carnegie wrote:
Paul,
You don't have the speed or speed endurance, to run that fast off 30 miles a week. If you move your mileage up to 45 it might work. I have a sub master training program, that develop speed and speed endurance easy. At the age of 34 years old, I ran a 1:50.4/800 and a 3:50.5/1500. Later that year, I ran a 1:10 half marathon off 45 to 60 miles a week. You can e-mail if you need coaching.
How come you never post your training on letsrun?
You can jog about 45 minutes, after your race. How come you not running hills and tempo runs?
I am in about 35:00 shape (16:46 5k) on 30-35 mpw (occassionally 35-40) 4-5 days a week. 5'10" 150 lbs. Although this is speculative, I would say I could turn about a 1:20 in a half-marathon - maybe a touch faster.
I agree with the other poster that if you have it genetically, you can get there on 30 mpw, but I would like to see a long run (8-10 miles) @ sub 7:00s in your workout repertoire as an indicator. 7:30s to 8:00s is not gonna cut it. Your 1500/5K times tells me you have this in you.
If you can prudently increase mileage (5% every couple weeks) and get in longer runs @ honest efforts, that would be another way to give it a shot. And I'm not talking about anything crazy, maybe an increase of 45-50 mpw if possible. Good luck.