I watched the video and Leer makes some good point, Wheating looks like he was actually 5th...not 4th!...would be nice to see some photos!
I watched the video and Leer makes some good point, Wheating looks like he was actually 5th...not 4th!...would be nice to see some photos!
I hate defending this guy but wrote:
... Speaking of sportsmanship, I don't think it's okay for a guy to hurl himself vertically across the line to get a shoulder in the accutrack. This is the only way Wheating could have possibly nabbed 4th place.
Why? There have been plenty of dives in championship history, not limited to the 1500m. When it works, that runner is usually commended for putting it all out there and risking his body and injury for the chance to win or get the lower finish. Unless you are impeding another runner by doing so, the dive is no different than the lean.
Ahah, perfect summary from Sir Lance-alot!
Very disappointing interview. So many excuses and what a poor attitude. Even if it was right after the race with emotions still high, criticizing Bernard Lagat as un-gentlemany is madness.
Bernard Lagat's interview after the race is quite different. On a related note, could his kids be any cuter? And Miika is wise!
I can understand why Leer was frustrated. I think he was hypercritical, but the video was recorded right after he just missed a world's team. So I don't blame him. It's a strange situation to have a guy (Lagat) who declares pre-race that he won't double and prefers the 5k. I understand that it's a national championship and Lagat wants to win or even just to race the country's best at 1500. That said, the runners who are actually trying to qualify for the team are in a different situation than someone with no plan to be on the team.
If Lagat legitimately knew there was no chance he'd rep the US at 1500 prior to starting the finals and yet was able to run in the qualifying race, then the whole qualifying process seems a little off to me. What if our top four 5k runners were all like Lagat. All capable of top ten at 1500, but the world's schedule made the double impossible. What if they all qualified in the 5k then ran the 1500 final just for racing/training purposes with no intention of repping the US. I'd be pissed. Admittedly, that's just my opinion. But I'd be pissed. As an American hoping for the best 1500 team, I don't want people in the mix who don't want to run for our country in that event. In an event with lanes like the 400 I wouldn't care so much to have an extra body in the final. In those events you can just omit the racer who doesn't want to be considered for world's and you've still got the 3 best times. In a tactical race like the 10k, 5k, Steep, or 1500, however, I want the TRIALS to be actual trials. I don't want someone with a different incentive messing with the tactics. The stakes are too high. I want the tactics dictated by the runners who want to represent the US in that event. I'm not even saying that Lagat did mess with the tactics. Maybe the result would've been the same if Lagat hadn't been in the race. But maybe it would have been different. And that bugs me.
I don't know if there's a better way, but the current rules seem imperfect to me.
I agree with 99% of what Leer says.
The thing I'd like to point out, though, is that competing for a USA Championship needs to be valuable in its own right and not just a qualifying round for the World Championships. In that regard, I'm all for Lagat trying to win a national championship. USAs and WCs are two different meets. Sure, one impacts another, but it gets weak when you have people trying to squeeze into third place rather than win a race.
i really think you girls are getting a little carried away over what leer said.
RuKiddingMe!! wrote:
I watched the video and Leer makes some good point, Wheating looks like he was actually 5th...not 4th!...would be nice to see some photos!
The first few times I watched it, I thought Leer had it. But when I was able to stop it right at the finish, it does look Wheating had him. If Leer had leaned at all (and timed it right), he would have got 4th.
Hole wrote:
Besides Lagat isn't running at Worlds, no one has the "A" standard so in terms it means that there are still 3 spots open. Yes, Centro won, but what if he doesn't get it and 3 other guys do get the "A" standard? Leer just needs to shut up and figure out how to get the "A" standard and hope that Centro or Leo or Wheating doesn't get it before him.
Centro doesn't need the A standard, just the B.
I'm going to disagree. I think it's legit for someone to just shoot for qualifying. For instance, someone legitimately trying a double at World's might want to go a little easier in both events to qualify for both. Totally legit in my mind. Totally legit. That's the problem with merging qualifying system with "championships." Realistically, nobody outside of the T&F world gives two chunky shi+s about who wins nationals. But many more people watch how well we do at a world championships, and way way way way more people watch how we do at the Olympics. So to me, the qualifying process is more important than the national championship process. And in that sense it bugs me that runners who don't want to rep the US in that event can mess with qualifying process. Again, I don't even think Lagat had much if anything to do with this race's tactics, but I do think it's annoying that he's there battling down the already over-crowded homestretch leaving less room for the folks who ACTUALLY WANT TO REP OUR COUNTRY in that event.
The fact that leer's injecting a lil bit of personality and candid honesty into a sport in dire need of attention doesn't seem like such a bad thing.
Avocado's Number wrote:
I could be wrong, but as I read the selection process, only the first four finishers in the U.S. Championships are eligible for the team, even if the guy in fifth is the only one who gets an A standard time. So the issue of who finished fourth and who finished fifth would seem to make a difference. Right now, assuming that the finishing order stands (and I agree that there seemed to be legitimate grounds for review), Wheating is on the team, subject to being bumped by Centro and Manzano.
The USA can only enter 4, and of those only 3 can run. But I don't believe there's a limit on it being the top 4 at USA's. Lagat has already declined the spot, so presumably the 4 are Centro, Manzano, Wheating, and Leer. Still Leer only gets it if only 1 person ahead of him gets the A standard as there can be 2 A's and a B. I'd be pretty surprised if there's only 1 A standard among the 3 ahead of Leer.
It's not Lagat's fault that the homestretch is "overcrowded." Any one of those guys could have taken the race out harder and stretched out the field.
The stupid thing about this is that you can see Centro getting jostled about early in the race. But he remained unphased, chose to get outside and towards the front and he dealt with it.
Why is the 21 year old seemingly the most mature, disciplined runner in this race?
I didn't say it was his fault. I'm not criticizing Lagat. I'm criticizing the system. In theory 4 or more people could be in the race all having no intent of running at World's (e.g. a defending 5k/10k champ and 3+ others who already qualified in the 5k or 10k and all have no intention of running 1500 at worlds). That could turn into a mine-field of people in the final 100 who don't have a stake in qualifying. That seems flawed to me. Nothing's perfect and I'm not sure there's a better way, but putting the national "championship," ahead of the qualifying process seems wrong given how few viewers care about nationals and how many watch the olympics.
total bitch
what a beesh
To all you idiots who keep saying that since Lagat isn't going and Centro/Leo don't have the A standard, so Leer could go, you really need to try to understand the rules of qualifying for the World Championships. I've said this one like 5 other threads, but here we go again...
IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE TOP 4 YOU CANNOT GOOOOOOOOOO!!! PERIOD!!! You have to be in the top 4 to be allowed to chase the standard. So yes, Lagat being in the race does f*** with Leer, because if Lagat hadn't been there, Leer would have been 4th and free to chase the standard. If he got the A and Leo or Wheating didn't then he could go. Now if Leo and Wheating don't get it we just won't send 3 guys, we'll only send 2.
True, the rules for qualifying are EXTREMELY complicated, but if you don't understand them then you shouldn't be posting/lecturing other people on them.
Good article to understand:
Also worth noting, if this article by the Register Guard is accurate, then Centro DOES NOT need to hit the "A" standard to go. He just needs to hit the B. Or if Centro hits the A and Leo hits the B then Leo can go. Basically the rule of thumb is we can only send ONE person with the B, the other two have to have the A.
Another opinion wrote:
I can understand why Leer was frustrated. I think he was hypercritical, but the video was recorded right after he just missed a world's team. So I don't blame him. It's a strange situation to have a guy (Lagat) who declares pre-race that he won't double and prefers the 5k. I understand that it's a national championship and Lagat wants to win or even just to race the country's best at 1500. That said, the runners who are actually trying to qualify for the team are in a different situation than someone with no plan to be on the team.
If Lagat legitimately knew there was no chance he'd rep the US at 1500 prior to starting the finals and yet was able to run in the qualifying race, then the whole qualifying process seems a little off to me. What if our top four 5k runners were all like Lagat. All capable of top ten at 1500, but the world's schedule made the double impossible. What if they all qualified in the 5k then ran the 1500 final just for racing/training purposes with no intention of repping the US. I'd be pissed. Admittedly, that's just my opinion. But I'd be pissed. As an American hoping for the best 1500 team, I don't want people in the mix who don't want to run for our country in that event. In an event with lanes like the 400 I wouldn't care so much to have an extra body in the final. In those events you can just omit the racer who doesn't want to be considered for world's and you've still got the 3 best times. In a tactical race like the 10k, 5k, Steep, or 1500, however, I want the TRIALS to be actual trials. I don't want someone with a different incentive messing with the tactics. The stakes are too high. I want the tactics dictated by the runners who want to represent the US in that event. I'm not even saying that Lagat did mess with the tactics. Maybe the result would've been the same if Lagat hadn't been in the race. But maybe it would have been different. And that bugs me.
I don't know if there's a better way, but the current rules seem imperfect to me.
I agree that the current rules seem like they need revision. First of all, the US Champs schedule should mirror the World Champs schedule if it is to be used as the qualifier. Then you could only double at US Champs in the events you could double at WC's for.
Think of this unlikely, but possibly situation. We have 2 guys who qualify in the 10k and want to go in that. We have two guys who qualify in the 1500 and want to go in that. All 4 of these guys run the 5k as well just for the hell of it and they take the top 4 spots. But none of them want to go to World Champs in the 5k as they want to go in the 10k and the 1500. Now the United States has NO representation in the 5k. Because based on the rules if you're not top 4 at the trials you can't even be considered. If this can actually happen with the current rules then the current rules are f***ed up because this situation should not be allowed to happen.
LL cool J wrote:
I don't really agree with him, but I appreciate that he at least says what's on his mind. I'm tired of the same boring cliche answers in every single T&F interview.
Yes, I agree. Love Allyson Felix, but I cannot stand her interviews. "yeah, that was fun. My main objective is to have fun and be a good role model..blah blah blah"
Listen Up wrote:
IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE TOP 4 YOU CANNOT GOOOOOOOOOO!!! PERIOD!!! You have to be in the top 4 to be allowed to chase the standard.
So what if one year you get 2 runners who decide to do a different event (e.g. Lagat doing only the 5k) and 2 others that get injured (or some other reason) and can't chase the standard? Does that mean nobody goes?
If that's the case, it sounds like a rule that needs changing.