NYRR are crybabies

NYC entertains quite a few American "hopefuls." It was an USA men's championships in 2009 and it's a women's championship in 2010.

I can also promise you Boston did not "assume" it was the pick. Its bid was not even halfhearted. Actually, the conventional wisdom until near the very end was that Houston would get the men's Trials and NYC would get the women's.

potato wrote:

I like the part where she says that the trials should be in New York because everyone is used to doing marathons in November, not January. Meanwhile, the Olympic Marathon is in August, which is not exactly a "traditional" marathon date either.

I liked the part where Abdi said, ""You really only need three or four months to train" and then a bit later says the January trials date is a bummer because "I was hoping to go to the World Championships next summer but I'm not sure I will be able to if I am focusing on the Trials."

My bad I feel ashamed wrote:

I used to think Glen Latimer was a Limey Homo and Doug Logan was a Mexican Puto until they let the better man win awarding the HMT to Houston. My bad I feel ashamed and disgusted at myself. Now I know that qwe can expect to see USATF spread the 2016 Olympic Trials and USATF Outdoor Nationals around to other associations that deserve them at venues like Stanford, Sacramento, Mt Sac, Austin, Drake, etc. Good job guys. Keep up the good work.

I wouldn't use the same words you do but I think much better of Logan because of this. He did what he is supposed to do take the best bid.

This Mary W. quote sums up how everyone can get entitled: "If I were an organization like USATF, I would not want the biggest contributors to distance running to be positioned in a way where it is believed Houston beat New York, Boston and Chicago"

WHAT???? USATF is supposed to give the Trials to NY just so the powers that be don't let it be known that Houston beat NY and Boston?

Here is her full quote: "If I were an organization like USATF, I would not want the biggest contributors to distance running to be positioned in a way where it is believed Houston beat New York, Boston and Chicago," Wittenberg said. "It wasn't smart because it makes people question us and our commitment to the sport."

The NYRR believes USATF should accept an inferior bid just so people don't question how committed NY is to the sport? Crazy.

Ultimately, it was NOT an inferior bid. NYC upped its bid to $1 million for just one of the two Trials. Houston's bid is only superior to that if it was contingent on them getting both trials or neither. A $1 million bid from each of the two cities adds up to more $1.7 million.

Houston and NYC were the only real contenders. Boston wasn't really in the mix this time.

I'd heard that story too. That would suck for the NYRR if she did that because basically it would be her own fault. Now she's bitching.

"If I were an organization like USATF, I would not want the biggest contributors to distance running to be positioned in a way where it is believed Houston beat New York, Boston and Chicago," Wittenberg said. "It wasn't smart because it makes people question us and our commitment to the sport."

[/quote]

Wrong again Mary. The reason people question you is because you deserve being questioned.

1. You bought the trials in 2007 and someone else bought them this time.

2. You denied B qualifiers fluid tables and only after pressure from "negative publicity" did you eventually give in.

3. However, out of spite, you told Mr. Latimer that you would NEVER do that again. So they eliminated B athletes.

4. Houston did not have any problem saying "Yes" where you said "can we work on that together?"

I don't think that Mary and crew really want everyone to know how the process goes down. This story certainly paints the NYRR as a corrupt organization and the process as flawed. In 2006 when viewing the bids for 2008, was Akron given the benefit of changing their bid because it wasn't high enough? Why were the NYRR able to up their bid? That is not a legal bidding process.

Well, if the World Champs are in August, you'd want to take a break before ramping up again for the Trials, so considering that September would be down time, that leaves exactly 3 months to build back up and get ready for the Trials. This is on the low end of his 3-4mo estimate, and he would therefore have to consider if it's really possible.

It made perfect sense to me.

data head wrote:

Well, if the World Champs are in August, you'd want to take a break before ramping up again for the Trials, so considering that September would be down time, that leaves exactly 3 months to build back up and get ready for the Trials. This is on the low end of his 3-4mo estimate, and he would therefore have to consider if it's really possible.

Check your math (or your calendar). Next year's Houston Marathon is scheduled for January 30. Assuming the date is similar in 2012, there will be a full five months between Worlds at the end of August and Houston at the end of January. Even if you take a full month of downtime after Worlds, that still leaves four months -- the high end of Abdi's estimate -- before Trials.

On the original topic, I agree that Wittenberg doesn't come off well in this article. There's no doubt that NYRR had a very strong bid, and that they've done a lot for the sport. But Houston's bid, from what I've seen of it, was strong too. Nobody wins 100% of decisions, and whining about it doesn't help.

I disagree with Ms. Wittenberg.

I think that Houston's going to do a GREAT job.

Now I just have to get that 2:18!

Yo tool, it's called marketing and you fell for it completely yet can't recognize it at all. Go fellate a swoosh.

you are a complete idiot wrote:

NYRR has invested in elite American and international distance running more than any other road race organizer I can think of. They don't need to have balanced fields for their races, or prize money at all. They don't need to put up money for pacemakers and top Americans at the Cardinal Invite and Brutus Hamilton, but they do. Certainly it ingratiates the American elites and their management with the NYRR, but it's also a service to the sport. They're doing much more than the US federation and this decision signals that Logan either doesn't understand that, doesn't give a shit, or both.

In a vacuum Houston's bid made the most sense. It was the most guaranteed money, the athletes could run fast in good weather, and there was time to get ready for the Olympics.

But professional marathoning isn't in a vacuum, and there's salaries to be earned by the athletes. When asked, they wanted it in NY on the traditional Spring/Fall schedule instead of a Winter/Summer schedule which they're being forced into. And it shouldn't matter what the suits wanted, they should've just asked the runners! Since the whole point is to actually be competitive. Though Mary is a suit now, she seems to get this, while Doug is running a business.

And a million bucks is such chump change when talking about what's best for the sport. The reality is only us and a few casual TV watchers are going to tune in for the trials.

the pros didn't want it in ny. the pros just want a fair shot at it no matter where it is. the focus is on winning. houston had the best bid and the best setup for our sport. having both w & m, with trade fairs, chubby trots, i.e. the whole package, makes sense and we should give houston our support and work with them. logan/usatf has a mandate to host MT/OT/Outdoors around the country and he has to do that. the sanctimonious / selfish bullshit from Mary Wittenberg, Phil Knight, Masback, Vin Lanana, Pinkowski, etc. became tiresome and old a long time ago. the usatf membership lives all over the usa and we expect logan to honor that and spread the top meets around to where we live. he will be canned if he doesn't obey us.

I don't particularly trust Logan or Wittenberg, but I do believe that each believes that they are right.

I think Mary's work and spending over the years has been done to make the NYC marathon a semi permanent host of the marathon trials. So her reaction is not surprising, the interesting question is why would a smart ambitious person slip up and let her personal feelings become exposed in an article? Either a political move on her part, or a set up by the USATF?

What hasn't been mentioned here is the fact that there were only three bids for the two Trials races. If the Trials are such a great sports property, where were all the other bidders from other cities? Wouldn't every big race organizer want the Trials?

The answer is that the Trials, from a business standpoint, are a huge money loser. USOC sponsorship restrictions make it nearly impossible to sell sponsorships against them, and the USOC owns the TV rights so local organizers can't make their own broadcast deals. The winner of the Trials is the organization most willing to lose money. Houston had to go to the local sports commission to get a financial guarantee for their bid. In other words, they needed government money to back their bid.

DD

I love people who applaud Logan for this decision. The guy went for where the most money was...easy choice. Logan is a complete buffoon, who pretends to understand he knows what's best for the sport, but is just shady and continues to talk a big game, but not back it up.

Honestly, the only people who came out of this looking good is the Houston staff. They are going to do a tremendous job with the Trials. I can't wait to see how it is organized, how they treat the athletes and how they promote the event. Honestly, I hope they don't rely on USATF to do any marketing work for them, as USATF continuously fails at such attempts. Furthermore, I am glad it's out of NYC this time. It'll be interesting to see how a Trials functions outside of the massive media market that is BOS-WASH.

It's an important historical turning point for our sport. Sen Your Low Han has taken the reigns and is now in charge of USATF. The other clubs, etc. have been put in the places. MW whining confirms that. It's best for all Americans given for example, Berlin WC 2009 T&F medal haul was from athletes who train all over the US. States like NY and OR won zero medals. IL has a couple. CA and TX had the most.

jjjjjjjjjjjj wrote:

of course, the most prominent marathon in the country is Houston's. who's ever heard of new york or boston?

___________________________

Prominent marathons or not, they obviously did not submit the best bids.

Give Houston a fair chance. We would never have heard of Boston or NYC marathons if people were like you (already made up their minds)

Also, Houston did a fantastic job with their 1/2 marathon this year. Just look at the pr's from all the U.S. runners. And, they all were treated very well.

Wittenberg is a crybaby. She loves the spotlight. The NYC marathon is not about her. She just thinks it is.

Just another running guy wrote:

Of course NYRR think they're entitled to whatever they want -- it's New York, the center of the universe. It's the typical New York attitude that nothing important exists outside of New York.

Kind of like Oregon....