Bothers me as well. Is this a cultural phenomenon? The outcome of the whole "trash talking," marketing-driven, self-promotional society that we live in? I tend to think so.
What if people simply said, "I don't know what I'll run. All I know is I've come as prepared as I can be at this point and will give my best effort. You'll find out my exact time when the race is over and not a moment before." Now that would be sweet.
A bridge too far wrote:
A really good effort, I agree. He'll need to rethink his training approach since he's really hit 'the wall' in his last two marathons, both in different weather conditions and at different race paces. I wonder if he's running enough long runs to get his body (and mind) used to being dehydrated? Total mileage is one thing, but some people really need a single sustained continuous effort on a regular (weekly) basis. Of course, with his injury history that could be problematic as well.
Since when does "hitting the wall" mean dropping to a 5:16 pace for a few K's and finishing strong with a 2:09 marathon?
Seriously. He went out a little fast, ran times for most of the race that had him on pace, and couldn't hold it together for a few K's, big deal.
In case you didn't notice, Wangiru also didn't set the World Record he was going for...missed it by 2 minutes because of bad pacing.
Which, coincidentally, is how far Ritz missed his prediction by.
Most of you guys are a bunch of whiney bitches for sure...sad you can't be the ones getting the attention...a true bunch of wankers.
I honestly don't think (based on the interviews) there was anything wrong with Ritz's preparation. He went to London prepared, fit, healthy, and ready to run fast. Much like Wanjiru and the other crazed front runners, he went out WAY too fast and never gave himself a chance. I'm actually impressed by his time, as it appears he never really died, just kept slowing (naturally) as the race went on.
Do I think he could have run 2:07 today? Probably. But we'll never know cause he didn't. He ran 2:10 flat and walked away disappointed. He should walk away with his head up and (realistically) consider a serious quest towards capturing the 10k American record over the next 2 years. His previous times over 3k, 2 mile, and 5k indicates he's got the wheels and his half's and 2:10 shows he's got the strength. I don't think he should 100% abandon the marathon and in fact I think he should revisit it later on. However, at this point and with 3 or 4 solid marathons under his belt, he needs to head back to the track and get his wheels going again. Regardless, he better get a jump start on Rupp, cause when that kid finally decides to go for it on the track post-collegiately, there will be no one stopping/competing with him on the national level in the 10k. Except Ritz.
dnixon wrote:
Bothers me as well. Is this a cultural phenomenon? The outcome of the whole "trash talking," marketing-driven, self-promotional society that we live in? I tend to think so.
What if people simply said, "I don't know what I'll run. All I know is I've come as prepared as I can be at this point and will give my best effort. You'll find out my exact time when the race is over and not a moment before." Now that would be sweet.
This is the approach Merga took before destroying the field at Boston. I couldn't count how many times he said "I don't know" during the LRC interview. And no, it wasn't due to his poor, broken English. He laughed at the "prediction" questions, shrugged his shoulders, and said "we'll see".
Merga said wanted to run a 2:05 at Houston. I guess he learned.
Message:
Agree - I don't know if I am a fan of anyone; however, I do hate to see athletes with unreal expectations set unrealistic goals and fall miserably short of them.
A guy like Ritz needs to focus on today and his current fitness. "Today I am a 2:10 marathoner ... and train accordingly". He needs someone to "talk him down" not feed his delusional thinking.
At this point, Ritz will only run 207 when he is in "203 shape" - and he will be disappointed.
I'm pretty sure it was only a few months ago that Cook took a beating on the message boards for essentially saying just this to Erin Donaough (sp?). I'm not saying that one is more justified in setting "reaching" goals, but I think the analysis needs to be consistent: either coaches should cater to athlete's goals or current fitness but the approach should be similar.
He hit the wall because he cramped up both times, that's how I see it.
If Ritz wanted to go for a time he should have paced himself to get that time, but if he wanted to "race" it he should have been up to the task of running with the top guys.
I believe these predictors athletes make are stupid, no one knows what is going to happen until the race gets going, even the pacers today got it wrong.
Aim for breaking 2:10 before you go for 2:06-7, especially when you haven't run any races that suggest you're in 2:07 shape.
It seems like people should give him the benefit of the doubt. He said he was in 2:06-2:07 shape, based on workouts, and he'd probably know better than a bunch of posters on Letsrun.
He only ran 2:10 because he went out too fast and, consequently, cramped up. Not necessarily because he wasn't in shape to run 2:06-2:07. Say he was smarter and ran the first half in the same time, but more evenly paced and he probably wouldn't have cramped up, would hold pace and run 2:07.
So sure, 2:07 is probably a realistic, though optimistic goal, he just needs to be smarter in his race tactics.
Are you him, his coach, his massage therapist? I know for fact he was suffering from a calf injury as of about a week or so ago. Ritz PRed with a calf injury, he is in 2;07 shape with a bad wheel.
dunno wrote:
The answer is simple...He went out too fast.
His first 5k was at like 2:03:20 marathon pace....His 2nd 5k while they slowed a lot, was at 2:06 high marathon pace.
When you go out that hard, you die. He blew it burning way more glycogen then he should have been from the get go.
That's why everyone in that 2nd pack who went out like that, pretty much fell apart and positive split. Same thing happened in the first pack.
Yeah, but what are you going to do? To race with the Africans you have to race with the Africans. You're not going to run 2:06 by falling off the early pace no matter how mentally tough you are. If he'd gone out any slower he probably would have ended up running a slower time. More often than not you have to throw time goals out the window and just compete.
(unknown) wrote:
Are you him, his coach, his massage therapist? I know for fact he was suffering from a calf injury as of about a week or so ago. Ritz PRed with a calf injury, he is in 2;07 shape with a bad wheel.
What about YOU? Are you him, his coach, his massage therapist? Either you tell us who you are, or you are just another messageboard bullshitter.
Do you honestly think Ritz is better than Kara? I don't have a problem with your point about the talking, but there's just not a smidgen of truth to that claim. Kara, and Shalane to an even greater degree, are more competitive than any American men save Lagat, Webb on his A-game, and MAYBE Hall. Ritz has done nothing to be included with them.
Sorry, are all the posters here privy to Ritz's training logs? Do you guys see what he does day in and day out?
Because I'm confused at how you all know his assertion that he was in 2:07 shape had "no basis." Ok, maybe to the fan, the assertions might have been a little surprising.
But who are we to say he wasn't at all close to that kind of shape? 3 minutes in a marathon is roughly 7 seconds a mile. That's not some huge insurmountable gap. Is it so inconceivable that Ritz went out a little quicker than he wanted to (ie, WORLD RECORD PACE) and paid the price for it later on?
I don't see what the issue is here. If you run a 15 mile run at "marathon pace" and average 4:55s, then someone asks you "what do you think you could run a marathon in?" And you say "Oh, I think I'm in shape to run 4:55s; I'll be a little disappointed if I run 5:00s," how is that being arrogant or self promotional? Ok, some people don't like to do predictions like that. Some people do. Who cares?
I'm glad Ritz isn't happy with a 2:10 marathon. 2:10 is a great time and I would love to run that fast. But Ritz wants to compete with the best in the world, and I'm glad he's not pooh-poohing with a "oh 2:10 is super great I'm so pumped!"
Some of you guys need to chill out.
dnixon wrote:
Bothers me as well. Is this a cultural phenomenon? The outcome of the whole "trash talking," marketing-driven, self-promotional society that we live in? I tend to think so.
What if people simply said, "I don't know what I'll run. All I know is I've come as prepared as I can be at this point and will give my best effort. You'll find out my exact time when the race is over and not a moment before." Now that would be sweet.
That would not be sweet.
The greatest runners do not say such chicken shit crap.
Can you here Pre or Slaney or El G saying something like "I am gonna give it my best and if I lose I know I still gave it my best..."
I like Ritz he is nice kid and he tries hard but he has been and always will be OVER...RATED!!! After the high school days, he has not step up to the next two levels in any event (5k 10K or marathon) I think the has the ability but there is something wrong either with his training system and philosophy or both, that just he is not going to make it; and he is running out of time. I'll say fire that coach he has get a hold of Alberto and evaluate really carefully what he thinks and does so he can make the necessary adjustments to step up.
So is it time for Ritz to admit that the Hudson thing is not working? It has been 5 years and he has not really shown the performance levels that he did eariler in his career. Time to get a real coach and get back on track.
Sorry to see him running so much less than he has shown he is capable of doing.
usain in the membrain wrote:
So let me get this straight...Ritz runs the Olympics, falls behind early by running his pace in the heat and humidity, finishes top-10 and he gets reamed by you guys for not going with the leaders and never being 'in the race'.
So his next marathon, he follows the leaders, gets 'in the race', pays for it, still runs sub-2:10 and he gets reamed by you guys for not running smart.
What a bunch of bitches.
Amen to that. It's so easy to pile-on after the fact.
No Calves wrote:
usain in the membrain wrote:So let me get this straight...Ritz runs the Olympics, falls behind early by running his pace in the heat and humidity, finishes top-10 and he gets reamed by you guys for not going with the leaders and never being 'in the race'.
So his next marathon, he follows the leaders, gets 'in the race', pays for it, still runs sub-2:10 and he gets reamed by you guys for not running smart.
What a bunch of bitches.
Amen to that. It's so easy to pile-on after the fact.
I agree as well. These threads are embarrassing...
If a runner doesn't meet his goals he's "stupid" or a "pussy." If he does meet his goals, then he must be "cheating."
Praise be to oldtimerunner. My sentiments exactly.
oldtimerunner wrote:
So is it time for Ritz to admit that the Hudson thing is not working? It has been 5 years and he has not really shown the performance levels that he did eariler in his career. Time to get a real coach and get back on track.
Sorry to see him running so much less than he has shown he is capable of doing.
on a side note regarding 2:09:59 or 2:10:00 - if I'm not mistaken, your time is always rounded up to the next second in the marathon. So he probably ran 2:09:59.xx. Make of that what you will. I know if I wanted, say, to break 3 hours, and my time was 2:59:59.50, as far as I'm concerned, I broke 3 hrs, regardless of what the results said.