AA is nothing but a social club.
The "alcoholic for life" crap is just to suck you deeper in.
AA is nothing but a social club.
The "alcoholic for life" crap is just to suck you deeper in.
palinforprez wrote:
AA is nothing but a social club.
The "alcoholic for life" crap is just to suck you deeper in.
Truly ignorant.
cant submit to a higher power? unfortunately for you, higher powers are everywhere around you. maybe you should get the shit beat out of you. Maybe then you'll realize that you're not all you think you are.
I was sober for three years in the 1986, got a degree in Psych, decided I wasn't really an alcoholic, drank and used again from 90-96 and went back to AA humble. The first thing is that you don't have to believe in a higher power, you just have to be Willing to believe. As in open to the idea. Just start there. Find someone who believes in working the steps. Not quoting them, agreeing with them, reciting them, etc.....but actually working them. They are actually hard to find in AA but there are some around. Listen to tapes to find people you relate to. I have listened to hundreds and still do occasionally. You will find that most of us have had major issues with the concept of a higher power. That is why there is a whole chapter in the Big Book titled "We Agnostics". I have served as a pallbearer for several of my old drinking buddies who just couldn't get it. Most of them were exposed to AA repeatedly and just couldn't get it. That's the big mystery and no one has the answer as to why some become willing and some don't. What I found was that there is a lot of power in just following someone else's direction and believing is not necessary to start. Just willingness to submit to other's directions. Good luck to you.
There have been several good posts since your last one. I think most of the angry, hostile posts are parodies or people trying to get a rise out of you.
One important point that was alluded to by a recent poster is that you have to find people in AA you connect with. AA is not a whole lot different than a microcosm of the rest of the world. Just like the in the rest of the world, you will find most of the people there to be douchebags. Don't let that get you down. All it takes is finding 1-3 people you really connect with, and they can change your life for the better.
It's also important to note that all you have to have is a willingness to believe in a higher power... I realize you sort of already addressed this, but is the fact that something other than you - perhaps a group of more experienced people, or perhaps nature or a love of the arts or even athletics - can help you really that far fetched?
My guess is that the "religious" people in AA have driven you away. There are religious people in AA and there are non-religious people in AA, just like in the rest of the world... do you avoid God-believing people like the plague in the rest of your affairs? If so, I think you're pretty insecure in your beliefs. Where you live might have something to do with this... AA in the Bible Belt is a lot more by the book and overtly religious than AA in New York City.
Btw, I can't tell if you are a troll or not, but if you're not, create a hotmail account or something and I will e-mail you. This is important stuff and I would love to share my experiences with you.
One important point that was alluded to by a recent poster is that you have to find people in AA you connect with. AA is not a whole lot different than a microcosm of the rest of the world. Just like the in the rest of the world, you will find most of the people there to be douchebags. Don't let that get you down. All it takes is finding 1-3 people you really connect with, and they can change your life for the better.
I think this part is easier said than done. It's really difficult when someone that you don't want to be around latches onto you at a meeting, wants you to go out and talk after words get your phone number etc. Even more difficult and uncomfortable for women. AA has an incredible success rate but there doesn't seem to be anything scientific about it so I am curious why there are not any other succesful programs around.
Earl: AA has an incredible success rate
End sentence here. Start a new one.
there doesn't seem to be anything scientific about it so I am curious why there are not any other succesful programs around.
Why? Because you think we need both kinds of programs, ones which work and ones you find more "scientific"?
We have plenty of that in running (and other pursuits). I'll take the training that's been shown to work; you can be my guest to read Owen Anderson et al and let the labcoated scientists tell you what they think should work, based on the principles they understand and consider important at this moment. If something works but "science" thinks something else should work better, science is deficient and must catch up with the real world.
Anyhow psychology does understand much of why AA works - at least my own shrink, who's not shy about the sciency stuff, both feels AA and other 12 steps tend to work great in the real world *and* are based on solid principles in her field. In this case it's really just that you lack the specialized scientific knowledge to understand why it's successful. Which we should all be more comfortable with. I mean, we all run without understanding all the biology behind all the metabolic and muscular and cellular stuff going on; we can take a plane somewhere without understanding the physics behind how the engine works or how exactly the plane stays up and turns and lands etc. They work; we see they work, millions of other people running and flying; and we don't endlessly question why they work or think they won't work for us just because we can't explain why in minute detail.
I don't understand what you mean by AA hasn't worked for you.
Are you sober? Yes, or No.
What is your sponsor's reaction to this conversation, assuming you've had it?
I'll assume you are a runner. Get in touch with Todd Crandell, the founder of Racing for Recovery, at a facility called the Lifestyle Center in Toledo.
Your "higher power" may be running itself.
Good luck!
AA is merely the forum or setting to aid in one's recovery; it's a guide. They say this themselves--you need the desire to stop drinking. AA isn't my cup of tea, but I'm still sober regardless.If AA isn't "working" for you, then you must not be completely ready to quit drinking--forever, because there are plenty of other people/groups/literature out there to help in your recovery.
dotato wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by AA hasn't worked for you.
Are you sober? Yes, or No.
What is your sponsor's reaction to this conversation, assuming you've had it?
livin in the south wrote:
Hey douchebag, it was a suggestion. Sounds like you're another internet tough guy. Making threats, especially on a message board full of people that are typically underweight, shows that you are nothing but a douche. Grow up.
If you go to a church, you are going to hear about God. It's a very easy, simple conclusion. Some people are turned off by that talk and therefore it will never help them. God is not always the answer for people, deal with it.
I've been going to AA meetings, albeit not regularly, for the better part of 23 years. I have yet to hear anyone mention God, a god, or religion in general in any of the meetings or outside of any of the meetings. Almost every one of these meetings was in a church.
Bear in mind that the meetings are in a church but the only church "official" you may run into is a janitor.
Your lost Brother--can't accept the Supreme Being thing?
Then you're making the mistake every one else makes when they reject "God" or the higher power--your thinking that shit you see on tv or the media called religion is about God--it ain't--it's showmanship---it's about ego and making$$$
Your arrogance causes you to reject God--my advice--keep drinking--kick back--enjoy it--jettison the guilt trip you obviously have---if you are not there already--have you considered moving in with the parents--cuts down on expenses--also--and this is important--get afternoon jobs--it's perfect for those late night drink fests--sleep in--party all night. Grocery stores are perfect opportunities.
Don't give up, man. I applaud your courage for standing up and asking for help. That shows me that your ego is not the obstacle some people here think it is. I am no fan of AA for the same reasons you stated, but the make-up (vibe, if you will) is different in every group. Keep looking until you find one you can deal with. It's not a cult. You don't need to swallow everything they feed you. Take what you need to succeed and leave the rest.
Unfortunately, in many groups you will run into the same dynamic you see here. Condescension, attack, judgment, predictions of failure if you don't follow their path, those who think an invisible man in the sky will solve their problems, and even dolphin worshipers. Some people in here say that you need to be ready to quit forever. That seems to go against the whole one-day-at-a-time philosophy that AA is famous for. Anyway, that's all bs.
Every individual's path to recovery is different.
Don't drink today; that's all there is to it; tomorrow is too much pressure to worry about. At the end of the day, look in the mirror and pat yourself on the back for not drinking today. Realize it was your choice and you made it. Gain strength from your own success and determination. In the morning, look in the mirror, remember yesterday's success, feel that strength and use it to make through another day. Over time it will become easier; the cravings will subside; your brain chemistry will balance out without alcohol.
Another important thing: Right now, today, make a plan for what to do when (not if) the time comes that you don't feel the strength to stay sober. Write the plan down. Hang it on the refrigerator. Who will you call? Where will you go? What other means of coping can you employ? Set yourself up to succeed. The name of the game is to develop coping skills that you can substitute for alcohol. Exercise, hobbies, spending time with loved ones, doing volunteer work, breathing and progressive relaxation exercises, positive visualization. These are all tools you can keep in your toolbox, to take out and use when you need them. As confidence in your ability to use your tools increases, the knee-jerk impulse to reach for alcohol will decrease.
Good luck,
ps- I am a masters level social work student (as well as a recovering addict), and I'm currently studying addictive behavior and treatment in detail. If you're interested, I'd be happy to talk more about this.
Also use weight exercises, weight lefting and breathing exercises through out your entire body.
Stay busy all day by doing physical work than doing mental work such as thinking too much.
Dont get on an arguement with anyone.If you do stay positive and greatful.
Stay away from negative spirit and despair.
Five things to watch:
Being Hungery
Being Tired
Being bored
Being Angry
Being Lonely
Get back to me if you want.
Henry Rono
Ok, my name IS mrsbabblebritchess for a REAL reason and you can imagine what is coming next! Yes, I dont know how to keep anything short and sweet. I like to go on and on and on.
Now, this is a subject that I have MUCH EXPERIENCE with. There is ONE thing NO ONE can EVER argue and that is someones Experience. Opinion's yes, Experience, no.
So here Is MY Experience, then I will tell you my Opinion's.
I was in AA for 25 some odd years and most of it really zealous and worked hard. But I could never STAY sober. I would get months here months there. One time even had 4 years but that was because I got pregnant and raised her terrific till she was about 4. I had to leave because I was hanging with the wrong crowd and started drinking and drugging REAL HARD! Ok, still going to AA though.
Well I looooove history. So I got my hands on everything I could about the conception of AA. The REAL story about Bill W. who spouted the importance of being humble yet that man had not a humble bone in his body. He was controlling while getting this thing together. He insisted on writing just about every single book and pamphlet himself! Did you know that??? Also while sober a few years, Bill found LSD and like Timothy Leary believed it to be the cure, the answer. REally???? Wow! He made Lois try it!! Luckily she hated it and it was Lois who made him realize he was crazy and to drop this whole LSD thing. Thank God it never made the AA rooms as he intended to do next. But also he never got honest with the groups about his use of LSD and kept his sober date. Yeah, huh???
Anyway, the way AA was in the beginning and for years AA was done so very differently than today! It was not meant as a "program" and it was not made for going there the rest of your life. It is now full of closed minded, do as we say or you will die!!! Back then you came in, they first got the booze out of you a few days until you could think. Bills story was always told and then the steps were immediately introduced and they worked, in order right then and there. Within 48 hours of not having a drink you were to do ALL the steps in a row. If you read the Big Book the way it is written, it shows you that you go straight through the steps immediately and completely and right away. You didnt sit on them. The ONLY reason for the meetings is obvious, when a drunk friends were not the ones you want once sober. And where in heck do you meet people? People who understand where you have come from and what you have done ect. that is why the "Fellowship" which is a name for "meetings" it is a place to meet other people like you so you can have a social life, something most of us had no use or desire for while drinking, but once not drinking we need people around us especially people who understand.
Now for the "Higher Power", "Religeous" stuff. Never in the almost 30 years of going to AA have I ever heard anything Religeous. They do say "Higher Power", they say "Providence" (which is a fancy word for work God does for you that you cant do yourself) Anyway, it starts by telling you to keep an open mind. Me, I refuse religeion AND AA and anything that is "organized" AA has gotten ridiculous and mean!! They are more pushy today. They have no idea what the real History is. Read Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers,and read AA Comes Of Age. And anything you can get ahold of that was written back in the 30's when this "movement" started. Heck with the internet you can study even more deeply than I did. Just go to Youtube.com and type in something like Bill Wilson, or begining of AA anything that would bring up really old stuff about Bill and the conception of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Now my many reasons why I do not go to AA meetings, do not have AA friends and how I have been 100% sober and am NOT an alcoholic anymore! And no one can fight me on it because I can show anyone in THERE OWN BOOK that I am not an alcoholic because what the book says happened to me and it was miraculous and permanant. But NO AA'ers will listen to me. They shut me up and wont let me speak on it. THen they say I am trying to argue. No, far from argue, I want to stress that if you use the BB the way it is written, literally from page to page you can/will understand the truth. Dont take other's words for what it says, read it by yourself and come to your own conclusions. Yeah, they are afraid people will REALLY get Sober, Permanantly and wont need them anymore. It says in the book "some assailed in single handed combat "rarely" make it. "Rarely" meaning hmmmm, some DO Win in single handed combat and I am one of them.
Here is my AA stance on this and then I will tell you my miricle night. Barring this new freakin edition where they screwed up the whole Big Book and twisted it to the "NEW" AA Way. So I am speaking about the first few additions of the Big Book. First you have one whole blank page front and back.(this is symbolic, but let it run through your mind and see what symbolism this blank page represents to you, its special) Then a small paragraph on the next page that says EXACTLY this: This is a book on how thousands or alcoholics have recovereD! RECOVERED!! Meaning fixed,, no longer ill, no longer an alcholic. The book is how to RECOVER! The meetings are to meet like minded folks period! The "program" (I hate that it is called that) is in the Big Book NOT the drones you listen to over and over at the meetings.
Now, it says early on in the Big Book that ONLY an act of PROVIDENCE can CURE us of the deadly obsession. Providence is capitolized in the sentence so it is refering to I call it God, higher power whatever. Im sorry, I am NOT religeous! I can not stand churches they are full of phony cliques and mean people. And now AA has gotten that way so I no longer go.
Now, here is my miraculous story of how I was CURED, RECOVERED from alcoholism and I am not an alcoholic anymore so I cant go to meetings even if I wanted to (lets be clear, I do NOT want to go to AA) I dont qualify because it says The Only Requirement (requirement????? hmmmm, right there sends up huge red flags) anyway, the only requirement for membership is that you have a desire to quit drinking. I dont have a desire to quit drinking cause I dont have a desire to drink so therefore exempt and not alloud in meetings.
Ok, it says in the BB ONLY an act of PROVIDENCE can cure this merciless obsession. I had become a binge drinker. Like drink once a month but I would drink for like 3 days and of course cause insanity and get so physically sick I want to die. One night I was drinking and I was so sick of it. I was sick of the black outs and acting like an ass and then hitting lots of stuff with my car thank God only trees and polls but it was a serious problem. I have gotten on my knees a million times over these years begging God to help me, blah, blah, blah,. But it never happened, so AA only succeeded in proving to me that God does not work so Im screwed. Well what I didnt realize then that I know now and EVERYONE needs to know this!!: God can NOT take from our grasp that which we are not willing to let go of. I like the AA analogy of us saying the old fox hole prayers. Thats why it never worked. Well this night I was serious! I meant it in my heart, soul, mind, Spirit. I was so over it and had one last chance at this I figured. (note: my knees are metal and getting on them is excruciating.) I put my beer down, got on my bed and made my knees as comfortable as possible so I could be on them, I layed forward on my face and went to God completely Humble. I said I just could not go on this way and to please relieve me of the obsession and compulsion, oh please, that compulsion! I said thank you. Wiped my tears, got myself up to a seated position. No flashes of lights, no sense of "being" in my room, but there was this odd sense of peace and relief I could not explain. It was not huge but definateley there. So I sat there looking at the beer I had left. Hmmmmmm..... what to do. I had NO desire to drink it, but I had a natural curiosity, (even though some how in my mind I just knew something had changed drastically) so like the good cat I am curiosity won over and I drank the beer and right away I was like "oh MY GOD!" grabbed a close garbage pail and threw up. Hmmmmm....funny! So yes, curiosity killed the cat, once wasnt enough I tried this over and over until all the beer was gone, every single ounce of beer left ended up in that trash can!! My "higher power" whom I believe is The Spirit, what ever you believe in, well made me deathly alergic to alcohol!!!! Funny way to cure some one huh? LOL!! That was a year ago last month and I have not had ONE SINGLE, NOT ONE, NOT EVEN A TINY ONE bit of desire or want for any kind of alcohol. I had been cured. I AM cured. I will say though, as a curious cat about a month later (even though I knew it was over and I was cured) the cat in me just had to check, just one more time, so I bought a 40oz beer and first sip, threw up, ever single sip, threw up. Of course I had to finish the whole 40oz but none got in me, it was expelled as fast as I drank it. Now there is not ONE single person who can argue this because it is MY EXPERIENCE! It happened to me and no one can say it didnt. my problem is that it came just as the BB tells it will and how it came with our Pioneers.
So for me, the question AA vs. Rational Recovery hell vs. a full frontal labotomy!! I dont need any of it anymore. I thank God for all the years I spent in AA and studying the History deeply, there I found the TRUE answers.
Bless you all in your travel toward sobriety. I pray there are people out there who have had my experience and I pray that you who are suffering will find their own experience or borrow mine and see if it works!!
Either way, I dont fight, I just say what I have experienced and have done. Whatever your path, that is YOUR path. Dont be pushy if others want to try other things. Isnt it H.O.W.= Honest, OPEN MINDED and Willing?
Peace, Love and Hope!
Allison
THE Mrs. Babble Britchess!
Pics ?
Regarding RR, Walk through these screens...
Don't do it drunk or high. Do it sober.
AA has a terrible success rate, just like most other recovery programs. It's somewhere around 8-12% long term, so there's nothing wrong with looking at other options.
whether you believe in god and are religious or not, i think a spiritual component is necessary for recovery programs.
i've been sober 18 years so far. i do not believe in god. i do know with certainty i am powerless as far as alcohol is concerned. i know that, for me, connecting to something bigger than myself helps. and hearing other peoples stories helps too.
use the power of a group man. good luck.