Question for running fast at age 47?

I was a bit slower than you - 17:30s - at the same age on about 50mpw average. I had a fairly heavy percentage of VO2 interval pace work in my training at that time and raced best at the mile to 5k distances. However, that was the age at which I really started to run into more frequent injury issues with the training, and started to evolve my training to mostly the threshold type training that most of the others have described here with about 60-75 mpw average. For racing I tend to do two or three week mini-tapers where I will do a week or two of 2x/per week VO2 max interval workouts and then a week of about 60% easy mileage and strides before the race. I feel like I am consistently fitter and have had almost no injury issues on this training. I also am 5'8" and ran at 128-130lbs in college. I run my best at about 130-132 now, but really have to battle to get to that weight, and usually stay around 135. Hills for strength and miles for endurance really seem to be the best answer for fitness as I get older.

I am 55, am 6' and weigh 155...20 years ago I was running mid 16's for 5K and then got into trails, then ultras. All of this was a nice change of pace and made me very slow, but now I am trying to get some speed back...and it's starting to work!

I generally run between 50-70mpw, all at or around 70-75% MHR, which is very comfortable, but not a slow jog. I started adding a couple of days of strides (6-8 X 100 or so at 5K effort) and at least one tempo run in the middle of one of my 10 milers.

Last fall I had difficulty running sub 7mpm pace in an 5K (at altitude, but i live at altitude)...now I have been hitting my tempo runs at 6:30ish pace and it's feeling easier.

Now granted this seems slow to many of you, but it is working and I'm expecting it'll take until next Fall to get under 6 for my tempos.

What worries me about getting on the track is the risk of injury, but i might try it after my ultra season ends in July.

One thing I find that helps a lot as I've aged is 8 hours sleep and a protein shake after my workout.

I also think leaving road racing and faster running for the past 12 years has added some years to my legs and a return to fast age group road racing may be a possibility.

I forgot to add that I have added weight training to my regimen...mainly squats and calf raises, but some light upper body stuff, too.

MasterRacing wrote:

thanks for the info!

most of my miles are slow! Like 9 minute miles but no faster than 8:20 (almost never)!

also I am starting some weight work at the gym which I have been at for about two weeks now. I am hoping to improve my core, leg balances, and some upper body. I hope this helps as well....

I am starting to run with a group on wednesday(evey week) evenings at the track. My first workout was: 12 x 400 and 12 x 200. I could not finish the last two! My aveage spilts for the 400: 78 and for the 200: 38

but I felt ok today (day after) and did 12 miles very easy (9 mins per).

Good session, and well done you for including 12 very easy next day.

I'm 44, looking for good results from 800m up to 10k this summer. I believe in mixing it all. I did 12x200 in 30-31 with 200 jog in 60 last night. There were three of us doing the session, with me were a 16 year old and a 36 year old. You can't beat training with the young guys now and again.

I think it's important not to view my session as speed work, but as a link between speed and endurance.

Do you do any flat out sprints? I do them every week of the year. This is one of the main reasons why I don't get injuries.

Sub 16 5k @ 47 would rank you up there with the faster Masters your age. Good goal!

There are a lot of things to help. Be careful to not add too many things to your weekly routine though, injury is always around the corner.

Work on getting extremely fit before you take on the faster speed stuff. Wts, Core work, Plyo's, Speed drills, Hills.

Go slow on your easy days and push when you have too! I do a lot of 8-10 mile runs that start out at 7:30-8:00 minute mile and progress to under 6:00, if I feel good.

Transition into the track stuff via a couple weeks of hills and having already added strides to a couple of runs per week.

Because I race the 800 - 10k (road), I alternate one session @ mile/3k pace and another @ 5k/10k pace each week, depending on what is on the calendar.

Important to become familiar with the pace you are shooting for (16:00 = 5:08's?), so maybe 12-16 400's @ pace, or 6 x 800's, or 3-4 x mile.

Stay fit,

by the way: 6'1", 170 lbs.

tony

Do any of you train in flats, or just regular trainers?

I train in trainers, flats, spikes and some barefoot running on track and on grass. Each type of shoe has it's advantages and disadvantages.

The more protection the shoe offers, the further you can run. The less protection the shoe offers, the faster you can run. Less protection also strengthens your feet somewhat and improves elasticity.

All of my training at threshold pace or below is done in racing flats.

I basically only warm up in trainers (2 miles) and change to flats for the strides and the workout. So I would guess I am running 15-20 miles per week in flats.

Assuming a cadence of 180 strides per minute, it looks like you'd need to cover about 7% more distance per stride (roughly 4.5 inches). I think you can pick up some of this from a slightly faster cadence, which the strides and 200s will help with, but you'd need a cadence increase of about 13 strides per minute with no change in distance covered.

Besides the core strength work, I think hills and other good foot/lower leg strengthening work will help to increase your stride distance.

I also highly recommend stretching your hamstrings, quads and hip flexors (lunge stretches are good for these). I'm not sure why no one else has mentioned it, but it sure helps me to keep my vertical bounce to a minimum, and that can be a source of significant wasted pushoff power.

Under distance racing too will have the same effect that you are describing. Most Masters runners that I know don't do enough under distance work at high intensity.

IllinoisMaster wrote:

Assuming a cadence of 180 strides per minute, it looks like you'd need to cover about 7% more distance per stride (roughly 4.5 inches). I think you can pick up some of this from a slightly faster cadence, which the strides and 200s will help with, but you'd need a cadence increase of about 13 strides per minute with no change in distance covered.

Besides the core strength work, I think hills and other good foot/lower leg strengthening work will help to increase your stride distance.

I also highly recommend stretching your hamstrings, quads and hip flexors (lunge stretches are good for these). I'm not sure why no one else has mentioned it, but it sure helps me to keep my vertical bounce to a minimum, and that can be a source of significant wasted pushoff power.

just got home and read all the responses with pleasure! So many great ideas! I do appreciate it!

I especially like the idea of training the next 6-8 weeks doing speed work, decreasing my mileage, and finishing up with small recovery priod at the of the season. I would then start over by increasing my milage base(it wont be easy..lol...100 pr/wk) and stopping the speed work program.....but I will have some adjustments to make because of my race schedule.

ps..I am minimalist and tried barefoot and like it!....but I dont do it enough in my opinion! Currently I train in nike frees 4.0, 5.0, and my favorite training shoe the 2006 Asics Gel-DS trainer. 80% of my training is on grass or dirt bike trails with lots of rolling hills.

this morning(5am)..4 miles easy with weight program workout

this evening(630pm)...7.5 miles easy on single dirt trails

skinnbones,

I understand completely why you have gone to only tempo type workouts...I have pretty much done the same....but, since this discussion is about trying to improve 5k speed, what has been your experience in tempo-only training in acheiving desent times in the 5k? If it's not getting too personal could you use actual race times in a response as that may/or not make more relevance. I can do the same;

lifetime best-13:58,

best as a master-15:10(doing 2+ rep. sessions/wk of 2-3-400's),

current best/fitness-16:10(long tempo's only)

My point I guess is I don't think I can get down under 16 doing tempo's only.....would like to hear I'm wrong though!

I'm nearly 42, recently (~ 7-8 weeks) recovered from quad problems that set me back. In the past two months I've gone from about 17:10-15 shape to roughly 16:20-30 shape with only "tempo" type work and 3-4 races. Other than some strides, I haven't run faster than 5k pace since last fall.

I would also like to sneak under 16 this year (I was in about that shape last year), and I imagine I will do some interval work to drop the 20-30+ seconds I need to get there. But even so, it will be mostly longer intervals, with two sessions a week - one faster and one slower than 5k pace - and all the rest of the ~ 70-80 mpw being real easy.

Good luck with it. Sub-16 at 47 is a pretty sweet goal!

Are you going to be doing any 800,1500 or 3000m races, road races?

That's my plan. It's all good for me.

Really good thread. My problem is total lack of speed for a race as short as 5k so i find all the suggestions interesting. My best 5k last year (19.07) works out at 6.09 a mile, whereas my best 1/2 marathon of 84.13 is 6.26 a mile. Basically I can run for ever at threshold pace but struggle badly as soon as I go above it, despite regular 3k pace work.

In an interview with Seb Coe in a recent edition of Athletics Weekly here in England he commented that a lot of older runners have very short strides and look like 'they're running on broken glass'. He stressed the need to do regular strides of 70 - 80 metres and to do regular weight training, especially squats and lunges. Apparently he still does both these. I'd love to see him turn out in a race!

nifty at fifty wrote:

Really good thread. My problem is total lack of speed for a race as short as 5k so i find all the suggestions interesting. My best 5k last year (19.07) works out at 6.09 a mile, whereas my best 1/2 marathon of 84.13 is 6.26 a mile. Basically I can run for ever at threshold pace but struggle badly as soon as I go above it, despite regular 3k pace work.

Does anyone else have this situation? My 5K pace is around 5:40, but my HM is 6:01, and I too felt I could keep going at that pace. Looking at conversion charts, my 5K is way out of whack. My threshold pace is 5:50-55. I'm also 50.

Does one skew slower at 5K as one ages, or is it a mental issue of not being willing to suffer, which you really don't do when you get into a comfortable, if hard, pace in a HM?

ultrastevep wrote:

I forgot to add that I have added weight training to my regimen...mainly squats and calf raises, but some light upper body stuff, too.

Have you found that this lower body work increases injury resistance?

Also, where do you fit it in during your weekly schedule (e.g. recovery days after an easy run, non-running recovery day, day before a long run)? Does it leave you stiff and sore for runs on days following the weight lifting sessions?

Sure, my Masters PR in the 5K is 14:52. At that time, I was running 3 tempos per week; all were 3 or 4 miles at 5:00 pace. That was my 'standard' workout. Of course, it varied slightly when I raced or when I was tired. I was also running 80 miles per week at that time.

I am now 45. I run between 4 and 10 mile steady runs and almost every steady run is done on the treadmill. I am only running 3 days per week and average about 30 miles per week.

Normally, my week looks like this:

Tues - 4 miles 5:00-5:05 (treadmill miles, zero grade)

Thurs - 6-8 miles 5:15 (t-mill again)

Sat - 5 miles progression from 5:20 down to 5:00. Usually t-mill.

I ran a 10K two weeks ago and came through 5K at 15:34. I believe I am in shape to run about 15:15 or 15:20.

Besides running, I am very, very active with biking, swimming, jumping rope, rowing, etc. So the 30 miles per week may be misleading.

Also, remember my earlier post:

This type of training has led to a lower tolerance for lactate. Not unexpected but it does tend to hinder race performance when I try to run fast. This training allows me to train and race 'solid' races but I don't feel 'sharp.'

On the positive side, I am very healthy and introducing speedwork (400s, 800s, etc) tends to injure me. So, I just don't do it much anymore.