"except" those who frequent this board
"except" those who frequent this board
A joke? I don't know, there are a buttload of people that do it, that really enjoy it, and I don't think they consider it a joke. It takes physical exertion, at least. I would think NASCAR is a bigger joke sport than anything. Guys driving cars, a sport? That seems like a joke to me. Baseball has its humor too. There was an article about how Barry Bonds might not be able to return to the sport because of the "standing in the outfield and the sitting in the dugout." I'm not kidding. The article actually said that.
Jebadiah wrote:
Well sounds more to me that your not a very good track coach if you can produce anything faster than 2:50 and 2:12 from your soccer player transferring to track.
1) Read much??? I've got 8 guys sub 2:12 and have had up to ten. My runners and teams both appear on the national elite lists as well as place top at Nationals.
2) Actually being a coach, I know two things:
1) Soccer and Track aren't in the season. How your boy could have been seen during soccer practice while practicing and then run a track meet immediarely is beyond me. Also, no school I know of lets athletes run two sports simultaneously so even in this imaginary school where soccer and track are in the same season, an athlete couldn't have just jumped in to a track meet.
By the way, I specifically referenced the members of the varsity state championship team. I make a habit of spotting freshman soccer players who i think can run and getting them out for cross country. They have been a part of nationally ranked teams ans been nationally ranked themselves.
It's not hard math guys. Soccer players in every school I know run track. If they're so easily breaking 4:30, document it. Name, team 1600/mile time and year run.
I don't want to sound controversial, but most runners on my college track team have no athletic ability. I don't think many distance runners do. That's why they run. I was a serious basketball player and baseball player till the ened of my sophomore year of high school. I quickly became one of the best runners in my state from 800-5k. I also could beat runners off of much less training. So I think many good athletes could excel atrunning. But in college I am no where near the best. We have All- Americans. To train at that level you must run for years. The main reason I believe America's super athletes don't become world class runner's ecause it has no popularity. Who wants to bust their ass becoming a great runner, when they could easily get a scholarship in football and have all the respect and support of their peeres. Its all the way our sport is percieved.
well there is a thing called club soccer which all of the good soccer players play in. that is in the spring.
Seriously... wrote:
1) Soccer and Track aren't in the season.
I think, in many areas of the country, school soccer is a spring sport as well as track, and club soccer is usually played in the spring. None of the high schools in my area have restrictions on playing multiple sports either. Must just vary from region to region. I'm from the southeast, just for point of reference.
We have had our fair share of talent comming out of our school with a current olympian.
Age group - 16 - 17 is where I focus.
We have had only three athletes who with moderate or no training who have been able to break 2:00 minutes for 800m. These guys are rare and all three of these guys were unable to extend that performance to the mile where they ran around 4:38.
The moderately talented athletes were able to run around 2:12-2:15 for 800m with no training. These guys were more likely to train hard and in the end became pretty good milers and able to win titles at the lower levels of competition. With good training some of these guys within two years of training got down to 1:53 800m and 4:10 milers.
The majority of athletes never fall into these categories and a significant amount of training can raise them to the levels of more talented athletes but in all honesty they will never win titles and their focus on running really should be self improvement without the hope of running to winning titles.
Every now and again you get a special athlete who comes through the door who can do something special. In distance running finding a guy like this is very rare. He was able to run a 4:15 mile with little or no training he is currently an olympian.
Basically the point is we all start at different points and we are inherently limited to where we can land up. The reason you run needs to be examined and at some point you need to be honest with yourself about how good you can be...
The great thing about this sport is that for every level of athlete "self improvment" is the focus and everyone gets to take what they can from the sport.
really? wrote:
It just seems to me like most people really could do just as well as I have or better at running (sub 4:20 mile, not much else) if they cared to. From what I've read on these boards, it appears a lot of people here ran 4:30 miles off of no training, and practically all decent high school athletes from other sports can dip under 2:00 and 4:30
I certainly disagree with that statement, but I do agree that our sport is in a world of hurt. The reason I think T&F is in such dire straights is that the "ball sports" are not international. It's one thing to compete against other Americans, a totally different situation when its truely world wide.
I know I'll get hammered for saying this, but I think the US should concentrate on really promoting the sport here in the US. Have meets where we are competing vs each other. Build a following in the US of US athetes then worry about Oly etc.. Right now we're done before we start. You look at Bekele etc.. and it just appears impossible to compete. We need to lay a solid foundation and celebrate our athletes on the national level, then worry about how they will do on the World stage. You have to walk before you can run.
I agree with the original post. Most average athletes could run a 4:30 mile with some hard training. Yes the training is the thing that sets runners apart and bla blah blah.
But in general there is a bit of an assumption by runners that they are better than they are. Most people running 70 mpw for a couple of years could place in the top 40-50 among the Americans in a National Championship road race.
Does that mean that they are really special. Probably not. There is just no NBA, NFL, MLB et cetera in running to really tell you if you stack up. Amateur athletes are allowed to compete with the elites in some events. The pure lack of participation in the sport allows them to be only a few spots back from the true talents. Creating in alot of cases a false sense of talent.
SO yes I think alot of running....at the college and club level is pretty much a joke.
stevearino wrote:
I agree with the original post. Most average athletes could run a 4:30 mile with some hard training. Yes the training is the thing that sets runners apart and bla blah blah.
Does that mean that they are really special. Probably not. There is just no NBA, NFL, MLB et cetera in running to really tell you if you stack up. Amateur athletes are allowed to compete with the elites in some events. The pure lack of participation in the sport allows them to be only a few spots back from the true talents.
SO yes I think alot of running....at the college and club level is pretty much a joke.
I take some issue with this post...but on some levels agree with it. I feel it is, at best, a stretch to say that there is a "pue lack of paricipation in the sport". Lack of participation by more talented athletes? I'd agree with that to some degree...but a "pure lack"...please. Last I checked high school xc/track has huge participation numbers...again, debatable as to the talent of those who get into it, but still, it is flat out wrong to say there is a "pure lack" of participants. As for no "NBA, NFL, MLB in running...true on some level. But based on your times, if you get sponsorships etc, you have some gauge of where you stand. I am in strong agreement with the statement that many runners can come to believe they are better athletes than they are. As for the average athlete being able to do 4:30 with some hard training...yes and no. In high school in all-region soccer athlete going to a D-I school on full scholarship came out for track. He had no ability. Ran the full year and laid down at best a 56 second quarter mile, and that was his best event. However, I witnessed a bench warmer for our OK basketball team lay down a 5:30ish mile soph year of high school in gym class in jordans(for the record, he was an african-american...if that means genetic advantages or whatever...). So while some decent athletes can do quite well at running, other GREAT ones will struggle...I have never seen a strong correlation. I have seen great runners come from many different athletic backgrounds...swimming, wrestling, soccer, baseball, football, and even those who took up running at a young age. As for college running being a joke...That needs to be specified...98% of DIII and 80% of DII...Yes they make work hard and blah blah, but I'm afraid I must agree. But outside of the truely bad DI teams, the bottom 20% or so...I feel it is a stretch to call such runners "jokes". I guess my conclusion is that yes, on many levels, just being a decent runner really isnt that huge of a feat, but its far from being a "joke". And for those at the upper echelons, you better believe its a real sport.
Bump
We all need to give ourselves and each other a break.
Non-runners who could beat runners are the exception.
People are amazed by what we can do. I won a two-mile recently in about 10:30. After the race, my mom says, "What time did you run? The parents in the stands thought you were really moving; they were guessing about 12 something."
Case in point. We do great stuff and I'm going to toot my own horn, pat my own back, and throw a parade in my honor. I need people to hold the balloons so tell me if you're free.
1st let me admit that I did not read the entire thread, only the 1st & 2nd post.
Yes, it is a joke. Only one champion, odds are against every one of us. I've seen people kill themselves training thinking they will be the best while everyone else is doing the same thing. Along comes some guy out of nowhere and kills all of them with very limited training.
You gotta laugh, crying wont do you any good. So yes, it is a joke. Do we quit? Hell no! We make lemonade.
you idiot running is just like any other sport, there's people with a lot of talent and there are less talented people. I can play and practice baseball for years and become moderately good at it, then a true talent can come along and whoop me with no practice...i don't know if i made a good enough example. The only difference between running and other sports is maybe the lack of participation and the amount of dedication required...but people please don't sell your accomplishments short just because some "talented" athlete "could" do it.
I started bowling in a league when I was 8. By the time I was 16, I was averaging 190 a game. Even I ran 4:29 mile and 9:55 two mile in high school.
I should have kept bowling. At least they are on tv every week and the winner makes about 50k.
not so much... wrote:
As for college running being a joke...That needs to be specified...98% of DIII and 80% of DII...Yes they make work hard and blah blah, but I'm afraid I must agree. But outside of the truely bad DI teams, the bottom 20% or so...I feel it is a stretch to call such runners "jokes". I guess my conclusion is that yes, on many levels, just being a decent runner really isnt that huge of a feat, but its far from being a "joke". And for those at the upper echelons, you better believe its a real sport.
Hold on a second here you are equating the 98 percentile of D3 to the 20 percentile of D1? Haha you are an elitist prick aren't you. I ran D3 a few years ago and probably beat 90-95% of D1 and D2 guys I ran against although I would often get my ass handed to me at D3 meets. There are a lot more good D3 runners than you think don't call them a "joke" I'm sure you're one of the "D1 studs" who can't break 15 but thinks he's a f***ing god because he runs for some "D1" team. From time to time I'll meet someone who's a former D1 runner and they find out I was a college runner they'll say "where did you go" and then it's like "Oh Division 3 huh." Even if D3 runners aren't as fast to say that 98% are jokes is pretty bigoted. Done with my venting.
Seriously... wrote:
1) Soccer and Track aren't in the season. How your boy could have been seen during soccer practice while practicing and then run a track meet immediarely is beyond me. Also, no school I know of lets athletes run two sports simultaneously so even in this imaginary school where soccer and track are in the same season, an athlete couldn't have just jumped in to a track meet.
In Washington State, Boys soccer and Track are both in the spring. Athletes can compete in only one sport per season.
In Oregon, Boys soccer is in the fall and there is no limitation as to the number of sports you can compete in, in one season. A couple of years ago, Kimber Mattox of Bend won the state XC title, and also started on the Bend soccer team which lasted two rounds in the state tournament - all in the same season
I think you are asking yourself the wrong questions. If you enjoy the sport and enjoy training to try to run faster then keep at it. When i started running i dreamed of the Olympics and trained very hard for many years. The best i became was a solid collegiate level athlete. But i'm proud of my achievements because of the sacrifices and hard work that went into them. For an Olympic champion my achievments may seem miniscule, but that's just it. They are my achievements. Of course i got beaten by guys that i knew hadn't done half as much work as i had and seemed to run faster than me but why concern yourself with them? The only control you have have is over your own hard work and performance, so let that be your sole focus. You will not enjoy every training run or workout, no-one does. But if you enjoy the constant quest for improvement and really love the challenge, then work hard for YOU. Dont worry that others may be able to achieve things with less effort. Your achievments are only really measured by the challenge it took to achieve them, not simply by the awards.
I ran D1 and I'm still with you Hungry Joe. I went to a fairly major program as a walkon with several full rides or 50%+ on the table from crappy D1 teams where sub 15= badass. My point is, there are a lot more D1 teams that couldn't compete at the top of D2 or D3 than ones that can. People don't understand there is huge variations in Div 1 runners too and shouldn't knock guys in other Divisions as much as it happens. Anyone who is working hard to be "their best" is alright with me, regardless of how fast that is.
Also, no way a lot of people can run sub 4:30 in hs. I know some pretty talented runners who barely broke this with a lot of hard work. If you said sub 5, I'd believe that though.
Just take pleasure in doing the best you can.