Good indicator of sub-4:00 1500m fitness

4x800 in 2 08-10(2 min rest)

10x400 in 64(r60)--if you can do 12 that is good

10x300 in 47/48(j100)

1200m time trial(once you can get it around 3 10-12 comfortably you know you are close), and then do some 200m reps at around 30-31 with a 200m jog

5x1k in 2 55(r2)

stuff like that will help you get there

thanks. one thing that i've always been confused by is, how hard should the efforts be in those workouts? should i feel maxed out by the end of those? or should it feel comfortable up until maybe the last one or two?

i like frank horwills mile workout, run 400 jog 100 run 800 jog 200, run 300,walk a 400, repeat, do 4-8 sets 6-12k of hard running this simulates the race the 400 to get out fast, short rest 800 at goal pace (about 208 for a 4 minute 1500) short rest, kick in the 300.

these workouts help you address strength for 3k and 5k, along with Mile specific training. a session of 10x100 once a week after a Monday run will help improve your 400-800 speed, necessary for your development. this should NOT be considered a quality session for the week, just addressing turnover once a week after a run and allowing it to develop over the course of the year. if you can run them in 15s with a 100m jog you are at a good point, and start working them towards 14s, and eventually 13s for each one. but do it gradually each week. that will be of huge help to you

If you are doing ample endurance training along side your interval work, then 3 x 800 with a lap jog in about 2:30 between reps is a fairly good indicator. Also, try running 1100m flat out by yourself. In a race you probably can hold the same pace for the entire 1500m.

2:30? seems pretty slow to me

thanks for the advice about the 10x100, i think i will try to incorporate those.

dude, i ran 3.57 last year and there is no way in hell i could have done 12 X 400 at 64 with 60 seconds rest, so if you could do that workout i don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to break 4.

Hey man, I've run 3.58 this year (I'll go quicker this week). I'll give you a couple of sessions I've done:

3x800m (2.15 rec) in 2.10

1km (7 mins), 2x600m( 5mins), 3x300m (3 mins): 2.38, 93s, 44s

8x300m (1 min, 6mins alternating): Average 43.3

9x400m (30s, 9mins after the 5th): Average 65.1

They are just 4 I've just picked at random out of the last month of my training diary. That 400s session you have there would suggest more like 3.54 shape I would guess.

Good luck mate, it'll be satisfying when you get there.

The thing NOT to do is base your interval sessions on what you want to run in the future. Base them on what you can do NOW, while still feeling at the end like you could've run 1-2 more intervals if you had a gun to your head.

Then get in some races, and find out where you are. You can't artificially force yourself to become a 4:20 miler by doing 4:20 miler sessions. Do what you can now, increase the effort as you get fitter. If you're already at 4:28 it should happen.

TimmyG wrote:

The thing NOT to do is base your interval sessions on what you want to run in the future. Base them on what you can do NOW, while still feeling at the end like you could've run 1-2 more intervals if you had a gun to your head.

Then get in some races, and find out where you are. You can't artificially force yourself to become a 4:20 miler by doing 4:20 miler sessions. Do what you can now, increase the effort as you get fitter. If you're already at 4:28 it should happen.

--------------------------------------------------

I agree 100%. Very good Timmy G!! Regards, Tinman

TimmyG, good valid points!!! Once you get a bit faster, you can up the intensity of the training/pace of the training but keep it at that level for 3-4 weeks until a race indicates you are fit enough to start training harder. The tell tale signs are the races, so you have to let them catch up before you keep moving on. That way you steadily improve because it is true you cannot force yourself to run 4 15 when you havent gotten to 4 20 yet and so on...good job

just run more. Get your mileage up to 80/week consistently and you won't even have to train to go sub 4 for the 15. It might take you till next season, but once you're there, you can start actually "training" to go sub 3:50.

run longer. run slower. race faster.

if you can run that 400s session you should be able to break 4-00 easily

in "Running Tough", Michael Sandrock quotes Frank Shorter as saying "My goal was to get done with the last interval, have it be the fastest one in the workout, and be so exhausted that if someone came up and put a gun to my head and said 'Do another one' I'd say, 'Shoot me.' You can't always do it, but that's the goal."

maybe Shorter is wrong, or maybe what would work for him can't work for less-developed runners, but it's at least food for thought

One of El Guerrouj's workouts (from Bautista's site, I think) was 12x300m starting at 45, then gradually moving down to 41. Do you think that it is difficult for him to run that fast? That's probably nothing more than leg turnover. Then again, he has also said in interviews that some of his workouts make him sick, that he trains like a foolish man who has no mind.

One good inidcator of 1500/Mile fitness is the following:

Run 10 400 meter repeats starting one every 2 minutes (i.e a 64 second 400m would give you 56 seconds rest and a 60 sec would give you 60 second rest, etc.).

Your average time for the 400s is the pace at which you can currently run a 1500/mile.

While this varies slightly from person to person it is a very tried and true measure over the years.

College Guy wrote:

One of El Guerrouj's workouts (from Bautista's site, I think) was 12x300m starting at 45, then gradually moving down to 41. Do you think that it is difficult for him to run that fast?

What if the rest is just 50 meters or something ridiculous? I'm sure that would be VERY difficult, even for him. The rest is probably not that short, but it must be short because you're right to say that 300m pace is not crazy for him.

throw in a 20x200 workout in there. More 200's in general, I think. Last season I did very little hard speed (under 400 meter repeats) than previous year, and while I was in good 5k shape (sub 15:20), I felt like I underperformed in the 1.5k, running 4:01 twice at the end of the season. I think that if I had improved my anaerobic efficiency with more 100-300m intervals, I could have wrenched out a harder last lap and easily broken 4 in the 1.5k.

thanks to everyone who commented. i like the idea of adding shorter reps, but i also like hte idea of doing 400m workouts in two sets, with very short rest in between each one (30-45s) and a long rest in between the two sets. And TimmyG thank you for your advice on not training like a 4:20 miler unless i'm a 4:20 miler, you said it better than anyone.

i'll be doing a 1200 time trial this indoor season and an 800 or two as well, so hopefully i can run 1:58 and 3:11 or so which i think would show i'm ready to get close to 4:20. thanks again... anybody have any other good 4:20-type workouts?