800 trainerquestionguy
46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 4:02AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I know of an elite runner who can run 45 mid in the open 400m and right around 1:46 in the 800m. Should this kind of runner focus on aerobic endurance, or stick with massive 400m speed?

My instinct is to say that's way more 400m speed than one needs. Thoughts?
ggg
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 4:59AM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
his endurance sucks (relatively). 100 miles during base all easy. 80 miles in season with 2 medium paced tempos a week.
Hill training once a week in the transition phase.
jimjamesrunner
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 5:02AM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Strength can be converted to speed. Speed cannot be converted to strength.
)INJsek
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 6:58AM - in reply to jimjamesrunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"Speed cannot be converted to strength."

This is questionable. Its possible he is just a 400m runner period. What are his 200m and 1500m times?
SlowFatMaster
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 10:46AM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4449289&page=3

About two thirds of the way down the page on page 4, Renato talks about the endurance-based 800 guy like Cram vs. the speed-based 800 guy like Juantorena. They must be trained differently!

Is your guy a 45/1:46 guy or a 46/1:45 guy?
dsrunner has the day off
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 11:09AM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
should work on being the runner he is, trying to
be better/smarter in the training stream which serves best.
important not to get trapped into thinking 80miles/week will
solve all the problems.

45 relay is more or less mandatory these days.


of course speed translates into strength. try
going through 600m in 1:18 with 52 400 speed.
it will not happen. like Coe said, speed is inescapable.
)INJsek
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:07PM - in reply to dsrunner has the day off Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
ds,
Speed is inescapable =/= speed translates to strength.

Or else Bolt could be trained to run not only the 400, speed can be translated that far to strength, most likely, but also the 800 or 1500. Speed can not be translated that far.
Dr. Exercise Physiology
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:11PM - in reply to jimjamesrunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What's this process called?


jimjamesrunner wrote:

Strength can be converted to speed. Speed cannot be converted to strength.
800 trainerquestionguy
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:29PM - in reply to dsrunner has the day off Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Sorry for the confusion, I created this thread late at night.

To confirm, this runner can run mid 45s in the OPEN 400m (not just relay). His 800m PR is just above 1:46. He's also run, at the end of a hard workout, 1:15 in the 600m. 1500m time is 3:46, 5k time is 15:10. I should also note that his PR hasn't changed more than a second in the last 8 years or so.

His weekly mileage is around 40, with base phase being about 50-60.

I'm asking about training because I find it hard to believe that a runner with ~45 400m speed couldn't just train like a 1500m runner for a bit and pop a sub 1:45.
NTB
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:39PM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A guy with this level of talent doesn't have a coach?
)INJsek
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:47PM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What has he run in the 200? Don't you think, if he is a 20.xx guy, 1:46 could be it????
ExPhysStudent
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 12:52PM - in reply to Dr. Exercise Physiology Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Dr. Exercise Physiology wrote:

What's this process called?

[quote]jimjamesrunner wrote:

Strength can be converted to speed. Speed cannot be converted to strength.
[/quote]

Greater strength gives the runner the ability to run closer to his max speed later in a race. I believe that is what the person was getting at.
800 trainerquestionguy
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 1:04PM - in reply to )INJsek Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Yes, he has a coach, but since he's been stagnant for so many years it makes me wonder.

As for his 200m time, I don't know it. He's run low 21s during repeats in practice, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could run high 20.XX.

Every workout is all-out all season long. 200's in 21, 300's in 34, 400's in 48, 600's in 1:16-18, 700's in 1:33-5, etc. It just boggles the mind that he's stuck at 1:46.


)INJsek wrote:

What has he run in the 200? Don't you think, if he is a 20.xx guy, 1:46 could be it????
Dennis Reynolds
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 1:08PM - in reply to ggg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ggg wrote:

his endurance sucks (relatively). 100 miles during base all easy. 80 miles in season with 2 medium paced tempos a week.
Hill training once a week in the transition phase.


Terrible, terrible advice.
coach d
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 1:25PM - in reply to 800 trainerquestionguy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

800 trainerquestionguy wrote:

Yes, he has a coach, but since he's been stagnant for so many years it makes me wonder.

As for his 200m time, I don't know it. He's run low 21s during repeats in practice, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could run high 20.XX.

Every workout is all-out all season long. 200's in 21, 300's in 34, 400's in 48, 600's in 1:16-18, 700's in 1:33-5, etc. It just boggles the mind that he's stuck at 1:46.




Total bullshit. There is NO "elite runner" that can run 45 out of blocks. Coe ran 46-high. Lagat and El Guerrouj ran 1:46 for the last 800 of the Oly 1500 in 2004, but neither can run anywhere near 45. Charles Jock is about 46.0/1:44, and he's a 400/800 guy.

If there was a guy like you say, he wouldn't be wasting his time with endurance. He'd be out there with a sprint coach trying to be Kevin Borlee (at least), or training like Jock. Maybe that's what you're complaining about.

Elite runners are more like Rupp. Ran 26:48 (once), but his claimed sprint times can't beat high school girls.
pointer outer
RE: 46 400m, 1:45 800m, how to improve? 5/4/2012 2:06PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"NO elite with 45 open speed." Rudisha?