valetta
video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 1:32PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Elaine
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 1:41PM - in reply to valetta Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
He saved it for Zurich like Suzi!
like a hurricane
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:10PM - in reply to Elaine Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Coe ran 3:29 in Rieti a week or so later. If he'd have run there, Scotty might have taken the WR.
break it up
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:22PM - in reply to Elaine Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Probably no other American in the 26 years since has beaten a field like this in a mile/1500.

Abdi Bile World Champion
Seb Coe Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist former WR holder
John Walker Olympic Gold medalist and former WR holder
Jose Abascal Olympic Bronze medalist
Jim Spivey World Championship Bronze medalist
Jose Luis Gonzales 3:47 miler

Scott timed his kick perfectly.
red arrow
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:24PM - in reply to like a hurricane Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

like a hurricane wrote:

Coe ran 3:29 in Rieti a week or so later. If he'd have run there, Scotty might have taken the WR.


I'm not sure Scott was ever capable of 3:29. The Zurich race was probably the most important race for Scott, but for Coe it was his first run out after having to scratch from the commonwealths with a chest infection. He missed over a week training and this came in the middle of 2 week training stint in Switzerland in preparation for the Europeans, which started 2 weeks after Zurich. Coe's rieti run was 3 and a half weeks after Zurich.
ventolin^
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:36PM - in reply to like a hurricane Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

like a hurricane wrote:Coe ran 3:29 in Rieti a week or so later. If he'd have run there, Scotty might have taken the WR.


i usually go with '82 being peak year ( despite silver in '83 )

he has a possible line of fit then of

48.5 / 1'44.9 -> 3'30.2 , 3'47.1

the 1500 wr was 3'31.36

he really couda demolished the 1500 record in '82, but probably not crack 3'30
The MonBRO Doctrine
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:36PM - in reply to red arrow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Did anyone notice who posted that video? 1984 Olympic 1500 bronze medalist Jose Manuel Abascal. He's got a youtube channel with some of his better races.
deanouk
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 2:46PM - in reply to The MonBRO Doctrine Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

The MonBRO Doctrine wrote:

Did anyone notice who posted that video? 1984 Olympic 1500 bronze medalist Jose Manuel Abascal. He's got a youtube channel with some of his better races.

Yes, I thought it was him too. Posted a comment on his channel a few days ago.
ventolin^3
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 3:04PM - in reply to ventolin^ Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i give scott a lot of kudos for attempting coe's much harder mile wr than ovett's 1500

since mid-'70s, bayi's 3'32.16 had only gone down by 0.8s to 3'31.36, whereas walker's 3'49.4 ( fractionally weaker on paper than bayi's 1500, but much weaker intrinsically when circumstances of each run considered ) had gone down by 2.1s to 3'47.33

if he'd gone for the 1500 that day, he wouda easily busted 3'31.36 & got a helluva more international acclaim as 1500wr holder rather than the american mile holder with 2nd fastest ever time

just picked wrong race !
deanouk
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 4:22PM - in reply to ventolin^ Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ventolin^ wrote:

[quote]like a hurricane wrote:Coe ran 3:29 in Rieti a week or so later. If he'd have run there, Scotty might have taken the WR.


i usually go with '82 being peak year ( despite silver in '83 )

he has a possible line of fit then of

48.5 / 1'44.9 -> 3'30.2 , 3'47.1

the 1500 wr was 3'31.36

he really couda demolished the 1500 record in '82, but probably not crack 3'30[/quote]

I pretty much agree with this. I still think he was intrinsically better in 83, but it was a close call. I really thought he'd win the worlds in Helsinki that year, considering his form in the run up to it.
ventolin^3
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 4:57PM - in reply to deanouk Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
in that slow race it came down to 800 speed, & as a consequence what it implied for their 400 on last lap

cram with 1'44.5pb coming in, a 1'45.03 in shitty gateshead before wc & ran 1'43.6 soon after wc

he had by far best 800/400 speed

scott at best maya been mid/high-1'44 - not same ballpark

aouita best of 1'44.38 - still nearly 1s slower than cram showed after wc

aouita shouda probably got silver but burned too much nervous energy leading when he wouda done better in a sprint & got scott

scott had no chance in such a slow race

ovett that year was in 1500wr shape, but his 800 potential is limited

47.5 / 1'44.0 -> 3'30.3
47.6 / 1'44.0 -> 3'30.0
47.4 / 1'43.9 -> 3'30.3
47.4 / 1'43.8 -> 3'30.0

lokking at over-distances - 2k/3k/5k ( not posted ), it indicates around high-1'43/1'44-flat that year - again inferior to cram

aouita shouda got silver if waiting for last 100 - 200 kick, but ovett shouda beaten him with better positioning

but neither shouda beaten cram
MarathonMind
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 9:32PM - in reply to break it up Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Probably no other American in the 26 years since has beaten a field like this in a mile/1500.

Abdi Bile World Champion
Seb Coe Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist former WR holder
John Walker Olympic Gold medalist and former WR holder
Jose Abascal Olympic Bronze medalist
Jim Spivey World Championship Bronze medalist
Jose Luis Gonzales 3:47 miler

Scott timed his kick perfectly.
Agreed. It was also a smart race strategically. He just sat tight way back and let the others do the work.
He had so much left for the kick he could afford to move wide to pass from almost lane 3 to close it out.
4:04.83
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 9:46PM - in reply to MarathonMind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

MarathonMind wrote:

[quote]Probably no other American in the 26 years since has beaten a field like this in a mile/1500.

Abdi Bile World Champion
Seb Coe Two Time Olympic Gold Medalist former WR holder
John Walker Olympic Gold medalist and former WR holder
Jose Abascal Olympic Bronze medalist
Jim Spivey World Championship Bronze medalist
Jose Luis Gonzales 3:47 miler

Scott timed his kick perfectly.
Agreed. It was also a smart race strategically. He just sat tight way back and let the others do the work.
He had so much left for the kick he could afford to move wide to pass from almost lane 3 to close it out.[/quote]
He really didn't. He was lucky Coe was coming on hard otherwise he would have been screwed, he had to slow down a bit and swing extra wide to get to open air. Still an amazing run.
MarathonMind
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/29/2012 11:59PM - in reply to 4:04.83 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You're right. I spent a little time looking at it more carefully.
He spent a lot of time away from the curb, and only got right on it in the final turn. Of course, that's why he had to swing way out at the end. But he must have run close to 15 meters further than 1500. He could have run 3:33!
I also tried to get all his splits. Very hard since Scott was so freaking far behind the rabbits, but these are pretty close.

Scott 86 mile Zurich
Split __ 100s __ 200s _ 400s
0:14.8 _ 0:14.8
0:29.6 _ 0:14.8 _ :29.6
0:44.5 _ 0:14.9 _ :29.7
0:59.4 _ 0:14.9 _ :29.8 :59.4
1:14.4 _ 0:15.0 _ :29.9
1:29.3 _ 0:14.9 _ :29.9
1:44.0 _ 0:14.7 _ :29.6 :59.5
1:58.9 _ 0:14.9 _ :29.6 :59.5
2:13.8 _ 0:14.9 _ :29.8
2:28.2 _ 0:14.4 _ :29.3
2:41.7 _ 0:13.5 _ :27.9 :57.7
2:55.8 _ 0:14.1 _ :27.6 :56.9
3:09.1 _ 0:13.3 _ :27.4
3:22.5 _ 0:13.4 _ :26.7
3:35.1 _ 0:12.6 _ :26.0 :53.4
3:35.1
ggg
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/30/2012 4:14AM - in reply to like a hurricane Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
no. there is a long way from 3:35 to 3:29.
small bro
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/30/2012 7:13AM - in reply to ggg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ggg wrote:

no. there is a long way from 3:35 to 3:29.


not if your name is Sebastian Newbold Coe. Pretty impressive improvement from him over a few weeks. Deano do you think Seb was too overconfident in the 1500m final? He was running his fastest 200 reps in training at this time (with the Haringey boys) and had finally won his championsip 800m. If you look at the 1500m Euro Champs semi he is a few metres back with 200 to go and must have fancied his chances after this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-LO6oBesrI

To run 3:29 was impressive and surely if someone like Scotty had been in Rieti to push him, he would have taken the world record.
deanouk
RE: video of Zurich 1500m 1986, one of Steve Scott's great races 4/30/2012 4:43PM - in reply to small bro Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

small bro wrote:

[quote]ggg wrote:

no. there is a long way from 3:35 to 3:29.


not if your name is Sebastian Newbold Coe. Pretty impressive improvement from him over a few weeks. Deano do you think Seb was too overconfident in the 1500m final? He was running his fastest 200 reps in training at this time (with the Haringey boys) and had finally won his championsip 800m. If you look at the 1500m Euro Champs semi he is a few metres back with 200 to go and must have fancied his chances after this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-LO6oBesrI

To run 3:29 was impressive and surely if someone like Scotty had been in Rieti to push him, he would have taken the world record.[/quote]

I think you're right about the European 1500. It's a race he should never have lost. I think it was a mixture of over-confidence, not "needing" to win after winning the 800 and awful tactics. It was as bad a run as the Moscow 800. If you watch the video of the European 1500 he ran every bend wide in lane 2 or 3, probably running about 1525m in total. Cram ran about 8m extra. You can't give someone like Cram 15+ m advantage in a slow race like that. He lost it with 600m to go, when he was right next to Cram one second, and then let himself be passed by about 5 runners in the space of about 30m, causing him to have to run very wide to get back in touch, just as the pace began to hot up.

I don't think Coe even needed Scott in Rieti to break the world record, although that might have helped.
His pace distribution could have been a lot better (54.0, then 58.0, then 56.1) and he had no drafting for almost 400m on lap 2. I think it was worth nearer 3:28.5 with better pacing and drafting to the bell.
Chesire also slowed him down a bit near the bell, by strangely surging to the front with about 470m to go and then (according to Coe) slowing down as they reached the bell. Coe, expecting the Kenyan to drop out, hesitated and then had to run wide for a bit on the curve to pass him. He believed that cost him the 0.3 or so he needed to break Aouita's record.