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YoungSub5
Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 2:43PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hey, letsrun, I'm a sophomore that's just coming off of Jack Daniel's interval phase. And my times thus far are:

400m: 55.98
800m: 2:07.13
1600m: 4:50

Last interval workout: 2x9x200m; average 32s; 40s rest between reps; 5 minutes rest between sets.

Am I in better shape than my personal bests suggest?
J.R.
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 2:52PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You have good speed, but are greatly lacking in stamina.

You can build this up by extending your speed over distance.

200's don't mean much, unless you are alternating them with something longer, i.e. 1200 - 400 - 1200 - 400 with 5 minute walk 400 recoveries. Also I think you're doing too many reps, and the 40s rests are too short (for longer and fewer reps). They aren't challenging enough, and the brief recoveries don't really mean anything.
Idontevenknow
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 2:54PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
why 2x9?
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:01PM - in reply to Idontevenknow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Sorry about the confusion, man! It's two sets of nine repetitions.
J.R.
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:07PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Bring down your distance times. Run cross country in the fall and focus on that. Don't do so many intervals, run them longer when you do, with more rests, not as often, more recovery (with distance) days, extending your speed, stamina and endurance.
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:09PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thank you very much for your input, J.R.! Yeah, my legs have been pretty beat up from the last five weeks of intervals. Did you have any other advice in regards to what I can do as I approach the tapering phase of Jack Daniel's Running Formula?
lokpy
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:11PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

YoungSub5 wrote:

Hey, letsrun, I'm a sophomore that's just coming off of Jack Daniel's interval phase


You are not, a F***ing sophomore struggling. Get a F***ing coach or join a track club.
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:18PM - in reply to lokpy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Coach wanted to try something different this season around, so he decided to have us try out Daniel's Running Formula.

Yeah, J.R., I came into the season with a personal best of just about 19:22 in the 5k, definitely lacking aerobic strength.
Frooty Loopy
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:30PM - in reply to lokpy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i don't get it...
Reality Bath
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:33PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Focus on the 800. With that kind of speed and proper tapering, you should get under 2:05. Get a better base next year (50 miles/week or better) and THEN work on your mile. It's too late for that now.
dsrunner has the day off
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:39PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
in your case, the Daniels schedules will not include enough speed to peak properly. you're probably 2 weeks away from 54 split on the relay.

my guess is you can sharpen to 4:40 at least.

the quickest jump is either to go after 2 flat and jump into the 1600 a week after or begin to use the low key 1600m races as workouts. the 200m reps can work fine but you probably need more work with 400/600m reps, cruising at >4:50/1600m, probably down to 1:20/500 pace.

but yes you are in better shape than your bests. you still to seal the deal by sharpening wisely.
ftjsd
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:41PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If you're really following the Daniels plan, and just coming off the bulk interval stuff, you're going to be fine. Your next few weeks of races themselves will get you close to/under 4:40 (assuming the 4:50 is from early this season).
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 3:55PM - in reply to Reality Bath Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks for the input, man! Welps, it sure looks like it. The mile's a bit out there now, just going to forge whatever we can out of the half-miler.
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 4:02PM - in reply to dsrunner has the day off Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
*In reply to ftjsd also

I really appreciate the knowledge that you've guys have shared in regards to Daniel's Running Formula, being my first season, I've been a bit lost as to understanding the whole picture! And a another huge thanks to the realistic goals that we'll be able to get after this closing season. I'll make sure to update you guys after Wednesday's dual meet!
DocLove
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 4:15PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

YoungSub5 wrote:

Sorry about the confusion, man! It's two sets of nine repetitions.


That's odd but ends up even
Bull_S***<>
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 6:40PM - in reply to Frooty Loopy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Frooty Loopy wrote:

i don't get it...


He just coming off. What about his track coach and the team?
heynowheynow
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/8/2012 7:28PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You could run 2:02 based on your times.
I ran 54, and 4:55 as a sophomore and ran 2:00 at the end of the season... also at the very end of the season I ran 4:42
YoungSub5
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/17/2012 8:28PM - in reply to heynowheynow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks, man! I was just wondering if you had any advice on pacing and tactics for the half-miler? And did you run any other races before the open 800m?

Welps, yesterday's dual meet, ran the open 400m: 54.57 Crapped the 800m. They were the only races for me for the day.

It looks like we're in condition for a pretty low 2 half, guys, but I'm just really struggling at racing it! There's going to be a runner with a 1:58 personal best at this Saturday's invite, so we'll see what we can piece together.

As for the 1600m, another dual meet tomorrow, events: 800m and 1600m. I'll update tomorrow!
Reality Bath
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/17/2012 10:55PM - in reply to YoungSub5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Congrats on the major new 400 PR! On paper, you are looking like a 2:02 guy. Don't sweat the 800 on the double, the 400/800 is a brutal double even with decent recovery time (curious what your 800 time was though).

NOW... you are looking down the barrel of five races in six days. This is a big mistake. Your 800 on Saturday sounds like your best shot at a good PR. Use tomorrow as a workout, if possible only run one of the races, and negative-split it significantly. You should go out easy and blast the last 25% of whatever you run. On Sat go out more aggressively, like 60-flat for 400, pace through the backstraight, and hold your form and work your arms the last 200. You might even sneak a 2:01 if all goes perfectly.

Non-race days only easy running, strides, drills and maybe a mile or two at tempo (5:30-45 pace).

Good luck and again, congrats on sub-55.
BS people
RE: Struggling with breaking Sub 4:50 4/18/2012 5:47AM - in reply to Frooty Loopy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Frooty Loopy wrote:

i don't get it...


Maybe, you are not smart. You never heard, the word coach and team. You guys, know he is not a kid.
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