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Whats going On?
What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 3:28PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
They've got lots of money, great facilities, yet can't produce.

I see Walter Luttrell second last in the 3000m. I see Sean Kene, one of the fastest high school runners lst year, running just under 1:54 in the heats. Most of their milers bombed.

Have they produced anything since Gondak left?
Been All Around
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 3:34PM - in reply to Whats going On? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Whats going On? wrote:

They've got lots of money, great facilities, yet can't produce.


Averaging only 50-60mpw and competing against Div I schools averaging 90-100mpw, it's no wonder they can't compete.
Kentucky Fried ??????
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:08PM - in reply to Been All Around Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Been All Around wrote:


Whats going On? wrote:

They've got lots of money, great facilities, yet can't produce.


Averaging only 50-60mpw and competing against Div I schools averaging 90-100mpw, it's no wonder they can't compete.



I've heard no weights, no dbl runs: they train like an average junior college.
69 my favorite number 1
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:12PM - in reply to Kentucky Fried ?????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
back when i use to race against those guys is when hunter spencer, david freeman, john richardson, james doty, thomas morgan ran for them and was coached by Don Webber. At a SEC party once i asked them how they trained they said Webber was a very firm believer in NO double, low mileage but Extremely fast runs daily.....then Pat Tyson coached them soon after that and guess program has just continue go down hill
Track Historian
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:21PM - in reply to Kentucky Fried ?????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Kentucky Fried ?????? wrote:


Been All Around wrote:


Whats going On? wrote:

They've got lots of money, great facilities, yet can't produce.


Averaging only 50-60mpw and competing against Div I schools averaging 90-100mpw, it's no wonder they can't compete.



I've heard no weights, no dbl runs: they train like an average junior college.


Compare this to when Mark Nenow was running for UK and averaging 140mpw.
Kentucky Fried ??????
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:27PM - in reply to Track Historian Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Although Thomas Morgan is back there, I don't think he has any influence over Don Weber's low mileage. You are right it is all tempo, but low mileage and few recovery runs. Actually Sundays off and no long run.
Coach X
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:31PM - in reply to Kentucky Fried ?????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
[quote]Kentucky Fried ?????? wrote:

Although Thomas Morgan is back there, I don't think he has any influence over Don Weber's low mileage. You are right it is all tempo, but low mileage and few recovery runs. Actually Sundays off and no long run.[/quote

There are a few very talented athletes that can get by on that formula, but they are rare indeed. For most of us, it's a recipe for disaster.
Former Wildcat
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:37PM - in reply to Whats going On? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Gondak is a great coach but he wasn't the architect of the training a few years back when we had multiple 3:58-4:05, 1:47-1:49 guys, Don Webber was. Not to take anything away from Gondak or say he didn't have quite a bit to do with the success, he did.

The previous poster is right, the mileage was more around 60-70 mpw but very, very fast relative to other schools from what I've heard. It was not uncommon to run at or under 5 min pace for the back half of daily runs in XC season. Tons of competition that pushed guys to run faster.

No doubles- but track workouts routinely took 2.5-3 hours to complete, with intermittent runs separating track intervals. Example: 5 miles moderate(5:30-6:00 pace), 10x400 with 90 seconds recovery, 3 miles moderate, 8x200 full recovery very fast.

It worked for us at the time, but I would say that you need a competitive core of runners for the system to be successful. You can certainly mail it in if you want to.
Thomas Morgan's Ghost
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:44PM - in reply to Coach X Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't think Thomas can influence the old guy (Weber) to train like Div 1 schools should. how long does Weber have left there?
Sketical Poster
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:50PM - in reply to Former Wildcat Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Runners are not getting proper recovery if they are constantly doing fast distance between workout days or between parts of workouts.

The 200s at the end of that workout above could not be done at much quality.

Has anyone but Nenow ever done anything out of Kentucky? And he supposedly was not doing 60 - 70 miles per week.
Kentucky Fried ?????
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 4:54PM - in reply to Sketical Poster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There is something wrong with their distance runners if they have 6 guys running under 25 for 8k, yet only 2 guys under 4:10 for the mile.
Kentucky Fried ?????
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 5:03PM - in reply to Kentucky Fried ????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In saying this, I just noticed they got 1st and 3rd in the 5000m
Former Wildcat
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 5:07PM - in reply to Sketical Poster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sketical Poster wrote:

Runners are not getting proper recovery if they are constantly doing fast distance between workout days or between parts of workouts.

The 200s at the end of that workout above could not be done at much quality.

Has anyone but Nenow ever done anything out of Kentucky? And he supposedly was not doing 60 - 70 miles per week.


In time people adapt to the training, or inevitably got injured(more the former). There came a point where you didn't need recovery after workouts like that because your body was just used to it. We could still run 200's between 24-26 flat after all that-granted there was considerable rest periods in between if you wanted them, that was pretty much up to the runner.

It could have been that we just had quite a bit of talent collected on the team at that time, and maybe that's the problem now. I will say though that we had quite a few guys that improved significantly from their HS bests to the point that I doubt it could be a coincidence.
Also Former Wildcat
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 5:18PM - in reply to Former Wildcat Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
But nobody has an idiotic philosophy like that. Even world class runnners need recovery. Even Nike project people recover with easier running. And yes they have talented people, but unfortunately they don't improve much, if any.

Everyone knows that if you are talented, you first try to get a scholarship at Arkansas, Standford, Oregon, Indiana, Penn State or Oklahoma - not Kentucky. i only had a partial sch there, but could see the weakness in the program. A few of us used to try to do some extra mileage ourselves on the sly, but it was tough as we were always overtired from pace pushing.

You get the rep you deerve and it is your rep that allows you to recruit or not.

Other than Luis Orta, they've got very few points in either men's or women's this year, and haven't been known as a powerhouse for 20 years.
Canada?
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 6:06PM - in reply to Whats going On? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My bro Kene has been going through a knee injury.
LetsbeFrank
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 6:27PM - in reply to Also Former Wildcat Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Also Former Wildcat wrote:

But nobody has an idiotic philosophy like that. Even world class runnners need recovery. Even Nike project people recover with easier running. And yes they have talented people, but unfortunately they don't improve much, if any.

Everyone knows that if you are talented, you first try to get a scholarship at Arkansas, Standford, Oregon, Indiana, Penn State or Oklahoma - not Kentucky. i only had a partial sch there, but could see the weakness in the program. A few of us used to try to do some extra mileage ourselves on the sly, but it was tough as we were always overtired from pace pushing.

You get the rep you deerve and it is your rep that allows you to recruit or not.

Other than Luis Orta, they've got very few points in either men's or women's this year, and haven't been known as a powerhouse for 20 years.


Where do these college programs get these coaches with these idiotic coaching philosophies? I mean maybe you can coach a Seb Coe like that and get results, but your typical HS runner that maybe wins a state championship... no way. Anyway, reap what you sow. What amazes me is how long the AD lets it go on without making any changes. I guess that shows you how much they care about distance running.
Opinion from aclose
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 7:17PM - in reply to LetsbeFrank Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Great running area...great facilities...lots of money...but continuously at the bottom of the SEC

And the coach has a lifetime contract.
Dick Quax
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 9:33PM - in reply to Opinion from aclose Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Are some of these programs weak because of coaching, inability to recruit or a combination of both?
yr5
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 10:57PM - in reply to Dick Quax Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Dick Quax wrote:

Are some of these programs weak because of coaching, inability to recruit or a combination of both?


At the college level (probably HS as well, but I never headed a HS program), recruiting *is* part of coaching--or at least one of the coach's responsibilities.

I don't know what the scholarship situation (men's side) is at KY, but if you're the coach you have to make the recruiting happen.
UK Fan
RE: What is wrong with Kentucky Track 2/26/2012 11:12PM - in reply to yr5 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
To the first former Wildcat - you can't be that much of a former wildcat if you don't even know how to spell Don's last name. Second - the workout you described is no where close to ANYTHING that the crew used to do at UK back in the day...

UK is about high quality on lower mileage... It has worked in the past and will work in the future with the right kind of kids. 7 kids under 1:50 in the early in 2003 was it??? Something was getting done right...

But - as the second former Wildcat said - it is all about recruiting. Weber hates to recruit, Morgan is green at recruiting and Gondak knew how to recruit... Hence why Penn State is doing well right now.
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