Why would super slow running ever be emphasized? Recovery runs after hard efforts, sure, but nobody recommends "super slow" running aside from those.
|Skeptic of it All|
I am not sure how long this one is going to last... seems like tempo run threads are getting deleted.
Here was my response to the 12 mile tempo question, which I posted in a separate thread but got the ax. Is someone playing a joke, seems like a good topic...
I think the term "Tempo" gets thrown around loosely. To Jack Daniels it is "AT" pace or for those who don't have the ability to test such things "the pace you would race at for about one hour." Thus 20-25 minutes is a good amount of time for a tempo. Obviously you can stretch to 30 or 40 minutes but beyond that you are getting close to race pace.
Sometimes "Marathon Pace" gets thrown in with the Tempo jargon. After all it is a fast pace that can be sustained for 12 miles and give the feel of a tempo.
Then you have the "up-tempo" coaches tell their runners to give, maybe on a fartlek run. This is just by feel.
From my college days and the years on the Farm Team tempos turned into time trials and run way too fast. Well every workout was except for the top guns, maybe even for them at times. So Tempos can sometimes mean "time trials" that I believe are a supplement to the limited racing schedule we see now in college. They may not travel to a race every week but that weekly tempo sure is a hidden race!
So the answer is there is no clear cut definition of "tempo" and everyone has a different take. I think runners world did a great article on the definition of "tempo runs" a while back.
i think the idea i have been taking away from the message board people who seem to advocate 'lydiard / big base' philosophies is that base running is about slow slow mileage.
so the LRC consensus confirms that tempo run days should come with a complimentary recovery run day, with a weekly long run, and that should equal base training?
You don't know what Lydiard training is if you think it's about slow mileage. His athletes ran mostly moderate miles. Common misconception though, for sure reason.
Super slow running should never be emphasized. Most runs during the base phase should be at a moderate pace.
I got my understanding of Lydiard base (aka marathon) training from Healthy Intelligent Training by Keith Livingstone and what I got out of it was basically:
2 weekly runs of 1.5 hours at "areobic" pace
1 long run of 2+ hours at easier pace
1 "marathon pace" run of about an hour (not quite tempo pace)
all other runs are supplementary.
So, a typical week for me is
M: am 3 miles, pm 3 easy
Tu: am 3, pm hard workout with club + easy miles = 1.5 hours
W: am 3, pm 3 easy
Th: am 3, pm 1.5 hours high aerobic pace
Sat: marathon pace or tempo run 6-10 miles
Sun: long 2.5 hours with last mile or two at marathon pace
This is about 60 mpw for me and has been working out well for the last few months.
I hope this isn't a common misconception that lydiard training is super slow running. I felt like I was committing some kind of heresy doing most of my runs at a moderate / tempo effort.
I felt a lot better than just shuffling along really slowly!
Good program. That´s about the way what you should look for base training.
M: 30min easy
Tu: 40min easy
wu + 1hour subLT + cd
W: 40min easy
wu + 8x1k LT-subVO2Max +cd
F: 30min easy
Sat: wu + sprints + 200´s @ mile-800pace + cd
Sun: >2h steady
Easy week with off day(s) every 4th week. Training for 800 (surprised?).
I encourage you to do yourself a favor and pick up a book on Lydiard training. That can clear up lots of misconceptions and give you some context for what you're tying to accomplish. Not sure how you can expect to get good results following some system if you never took the time to learn the fundamentals of the system.
"Near-best aerobic effort" is a common term he uses.
Any of the following will work:
"Running to the Top" - Lydiard
"Running with Lydiard" - Lydiard
"The Self-Made Olympian" - Daws
"Running Your Best" - Daws
"Healthy Intelligent Training" - Livingstone, (specifically geared a bit to middle distances)
What? That's your base phase? You're basically taking three days off from running per week! A double day of 3/3 is a useless day of running because it includes two useless runs! And why are you taking a day off every week in addition to this?
Make those Mondays and Wednesdays worthwhile. Run either a more substantial double (4/8 at least) or a worthwhile single (at least 8). And only take a day off when you need it, not every week. As long as you're not running your easy days too fast, this increase won't be a problem for you, but will make you much more fit after a couple of months.
You could be right. I may try that. I'm just worried about over-doing it because in the past I've been injury prone and I'm currently enjoying a nice injury-free streak. I feel in great shape and I don't want to get too greedy and mess it up. That always seems to happen.
|tempo run police|
Rojo, delete this thread immediately. Someone brought up the "T" word again.
I think a lot of the confusion stems from the use of "LSD" ; )
LSD = Long Steady Distance
Somehow, I assume during the "low mileage steady dose of intervals" days of the early 90s, it began to be dismissed at Long Slow Distance.
During base building, my advice would be to run slow if you feel tired and run fast if you feel good. Don't worry about the rest of it...
Fair enough. I ask because the idea in a base phase is to get in a lot of easy, aerobic running, building up your volume and gradually adding in quality until you start to hit the next phase.
Your program is almost all quality. Your only easy runs are 3 miles long. You have four workout days, and your other days are extremely low volume. In your base phase, I'd suggest skipping the club workout, adding a lot more miles on your easy days, and keeping the tempos (you've really got two listed) and your LR. Once you get closer to racing season, add the track workout or whatever it is you do on Tuesday back in and only sacrifice as much volume as is really necessary to accommodate that workout. Your schedule should maybe be more like this:
M - Easy. Single or double, but at least 8-10 miles total running. More if possible.
T - Easy as above. Strides or hill sprints after your primary run.
W - Tempo, or higher aerobic pace as you have above (like M pace)
Th - Easy, as Tuesday.
F - Tempo, as Saturday in your schedule
S - Easy, as Monday
Su - Long
If you need a day off, take it on Monday after your LR. Or just do a short shakeout that day. I'd suggest moving your tempo day to Friday so that you have an easy day before your LR. This will allow you to get more value out of the LR by making it easier to cut down the pace at the end of that run, allowing the recruitment of more fast twitch fibers as the slow twitch fibers tire.
|predict my stuff|
who exactly adopted this training philosophy in the 90s? which pro runners? or is this just a made up conclusion?
Given what Inf said about being injury-prone in another message, his plan might be just fine for him; those 3 mile runs aren't useless at all. In fact, his plan is fairly close to the approach Kenny Moore used last century.