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ghost
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 2:39PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I hear you, and he made some wrong decisions. But people are not all good or all bad - but rather a composition of different qualities, good and bad. Eddy is no different to most people, except that he was high profile and got caught. Yes, he should pay back the money he obtained, but this is a fuzzy area, because it is impossible to track precisely the time when he benefited from his short EPO use. Remember that he had a long and distinguished career before succombing to the temptation of EPO use, including representing Belgium in Olympics and World Champs.

Eddy was not as good as his predecessor, Karel Lismont, the two time Olympic medallist from Borgloon, Belgium, but even without EPO he would have attained very good levels, as he showed when he was not on the stuff.

Why is there so much venom towards runners who take stuff compared with cyclists? After cyclists Virenque and Millar admitted their guilt, they were both welcomed back into the cycling fraternity by the vast majority of their friends and rivals as well as the officials in the sport. Running should be no different. The vilification seems excessive and unwarranted. I remember a tv 5 (France) in which Virenque cried in front of the cameras and the whole nation (France) cried with him. Gallic tolerance perhaps, versus anglo saxon cold realism and lack of empathy?

Ghost in Saudi, www.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today
prowyanow
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 2:49PM - in reply to ghost Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Drugs and Cycling go together like Peanut and Jelly. And you're kidding yourself if you think he doesn't know when he took the EPO. Point and case, he is a cheat. If he comes back and runs great and is clean, then I will tip my hat to him. But when it comes to gray areas, he lied, cheated, and stole to get where he is. Any other profession he would get fired or put in prison, so he should be thankful all he loses is a few times and his respect on one internet forum.
aaaaaaaaaaaa
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 2:53PM - in reply to ghost Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Please please tell me you are trolling with that comment? Dirty people will welcome dirty people back because they would want the same treatment if they where caught. Like you said, people are good and bad. Like him as a person if you want. I really don't care about him as a person. but as a professional runner...he has proven to be all bad. What he did for other people's running has nothing to do with his running. You can thinks he's a great person for treating other well and helping others but that has nothing to do with the fact he cheated. There is nothing fuzzy once you have an established date of being dirty. From that date forward you are dirty.
I do run run run
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 2:59PM - in reply to ghost Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Cyclists welcome some of their own back because they are in denial. Doping is even more rampant in cycling than it is in track. There is huge systematic doping in cycling, and it is so built in a lot of them just protect each other. And fans still want to watch it but many are still aware that their favorite riders are probably cheating. There is just too much evidence and history to suggest otherwise.

I don't feel sorry for David Millar, or Richard Virenque. Just as I don't for Eddy H, or other runners. Virenque even had the audacity to feign ignorance and innocence when his ENTIRE FESTINA team got sacked. Sympathy for what!?
Yes, whats crazy is that guys like Eddy H were accomplished runners before they decided to cheat. Marion Jones was the same way. Maybe many would have been champions without taking drugs. But it remains that in their greed and lust for more they cheated EVERYBODY! Why should we sympathize and tolerate the fact that not only did these people choose to do this, but they manipulatively keep up the charade so people feel sorry for them, that they were pressured to cheat and had nowhere else to go. Boohoo, cry us a river. For every cheat there are hopefully many more that choose to do things the right way, and remain honorable. And what do they get for it!? Beaten by cheaters, and the sympathy goes to the cheater?
How does that make any sense? If you had an office job, and decided to break the little rule in the rulebook that says "dont cheat the company". Ahh but its a victimless crime, I'll just get what's mine and none be the wiser. NOPE! You get caught, you go to jail, and are blackballed as a con for the rest of your life. As you SHOULD BE! Go work in another profession, cause you screwed over everybody in your old one.
ghost
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 3:26PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You are right about cycling, and even doctors and physiologists have pondered that it is nigh impossible to maintain the present speeds they (the cyclists) maintain in events like the Tour de France, without taking some kinds of 'aids' - look at Armstrong, who is suspected, but never convicted. So in cycling, you have cyclists who were basically forced to take stuff just to stay on the same level playing field, not because they were born cheaters. That is the argument the great Danish rider (sorry forgot his name at this time) used recently, when he admitted his drug use, and he was lauded for coming clean - far cry from the response to Eddy's admission of guilt.

There are many foreign doctors in the U.S., Canada, the UK and Australia who obtained their medical degrees without having completed all requirements. Most of these physicians do a fine job in helping people. They took short cuts in their education programs, you might say, but the benefits to sick people, it could be argued, outweigh the shortcuts those guys took.

Ghost in Saudi, wwwk.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today
sometimes ignorant
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 3:30PM - in reply to ghost Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
ghost, your take on this whole episode is pretty unfortunate considering you coach runners from time to time. Who gives two sh!ts if French cycling fans venerate Virenque. He was an admitted cheat. He embarrassed the sport, his team and coach, his country, and himself. There should be zero room in sports for dopers or their performances. Hellybuck didn't just get caught, he denied suspicions for years, coached a team of high schoolers during this whole time, fought the process the entire way with appeals and claims of scape-goating and vendettas. Not a good dude. Good riddance.
calsnailer
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 3:52PM - in reply to Helio Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
YES! There is justice in the world! Better late than never.
J.R.
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 4:41PM - in reply to broken arrow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

broken arrow wrote:

The guy is a cheater plan and simple, and once you are a cheater and a liar, no one is ever going to believe you again.


Please answer my question.

How exactly did he cheat or rob anyone?

If he didn't cheat or rob anyone, and you keep saying he did, it seems to me that makes YOU the cheater and robber.
J.R.
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 4:45PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
From my understanding of this, and I don't know Eddy, he said he took drugs or epo or tylenol something, whatever. So he took some drugs, stupid in my opinion, but not any different from 99 percent of stupid Americans.

But where did he cheat or rob anyone? Did he take a pencil from walmart and get caught?

Seriously, a lot of people on here are very confused.

If I am mistaken, then please let me know where he actually STOLE or robbed anything from anyone and was convicted of such. Otherwise, stop being such idiots.
Million Dollar Babe
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 5:33PM - in reply to Helio Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I shot the sheriff
But I didn't shoot no deputy, oh no! Oh!
I shot the sheriff
But I didn't shoot no deputy, ooh, ooh, oo-ooh.)
Yeah! All around in my home town,
They're tryin' to track me down;
They say they want to bring me in guilty
For the killing of a deputy,
For the life of a deputy.
But I say:

Oh, now, now. Oh!
(I shot the sheriff.) - the sheriff.
(But I swear it was in selfdefence.)
Oh, no! (Ooh, ooh, oo-oh) Yeah!
I say: I shot the sheriff - Oh, Lord! -
(And they say it is a capital offence.)
Yeah! (Ooh, ooh, oo-oh) Yeah!
I do run run run
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 5:38PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You must have been asleep all this time JR.

First of all he took EPO, which is illegal to obtain outside of a doctor administering it. Second, it is against the law to take EPO also if you are competing in all running competitions. Third, the rules of track & field have a banned list for this very reason. You are breaking the law in doing this and can have your money taken, medals taken, records and result expunged, and can be arrested for fraud.

When an athlete in track competes on drugs, their performance is tainted and they have broken the laws of the sport. So yes, through his EPO performances he has thereby stolen records, prize money, possible endorsement opportunities, tainted those races in which he won, and destroyed much for every other runner in the races he ran as he should not have been allowed to compete in the first place. It ALTERS everything.


But clearly JR, you are of the mind that as long as you get yours, the ends justify the means, and you'd gladly take whatever drugs you could if you could get a million dollars.


Eddy H not only took drugs and cheated the sport, but he lied for years about it, and is still trying to manipulate the system to keep records and results he himself admitted he cheated to attain. Why do you defend people who make a mockery and insult everything that has been done to make for honest sport.


People with your mentality JR all end up in the same place. In prison, and inevitably die alone.
J.R.
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 5:47PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

I do run run run wrote:

You must have been asleep all this time JR.


I do sleep some of the time. Don't you? If not, then perhaps your brain is frazzled? As far as I know, sleep is a requirement for being alert and having clear thinking. Apparently you, and many others on here, are not getting enough sleep!

If Eddy took a drug, then so what, big frigging deal. I bet you take drugs too. I don't take any drugs. So????? So what!?????

Are you a drug believer, supporter, advertiser?

Again, I am not. I don't believe in the drugs and don't care for them. Apparently YOU DO!

You say Eddy stole a record. Exactly how did he do this, did he break into a building, rip it off a wall and jump out a window? Do you have a photo of him doing this, and was he convicted as such? I've not seen any evidence of this, only hysteria and supposition, which means nothing.
J.R.
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 5:50PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Let me give you an example of cheating and robbing.

Let's say you get 2nd or 3rd place in a race.

Therefore you do NOT DESERVE 1st place or the rewards that go to 1st place. However if you lie, defraud and cheat, such that you end up TAKING the reward given to 1st place -- which you did not earn -- THEN you are the one guilty of CHEATING AND ROBBING.

Have you done this?

If so, then by definition, YOU ARE A CHEATER AND A ROBBER.

Taking drugs, which most Americans do is not cheating and robbing. It is taking drugs, nothing more nothing less.

However, cheating and robbing IS cheating and robbing.
Junk Master
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 6:06PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
At least Eddie won real races and not the fictional Western Wyoming Marathon.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, Eddie never changed shoes during a marathon.

So he took a little "support" for his hard training.

Who doesn't? It just allows you to train harder and the person who trains the hardest deserves to win, right.
I do run run run
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 6:21PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
here's little point in having a conversation with you. You aren't interested in one.

I do not take drugs of any kind, and it doesn't matter if you do or not either.

"So he took drugs, who cares?"
Exactly the mentality of drug dealers. Victimless crime right?
It is AGAINST THE LAW! It's why Marion Jones ended up having to pay back money, forced to return medals, had results and records stripped from history, and her teammates on relays were forced to give up medals and those results. And she served prison time because of her actions in the investigation into her TAKING DRUGS and CHEATING THE SPORT! WHY? BECAUSE OF DRUGS!

You also end up defrauding your sponsor, and can be successfully sued by your sponsor for breach of contract.

The records and results are fraudulent. Had it been known that he was taking drugs when the race occurred he would have been disqualified and banned at that time and never would have been able to race. Their deceit is the next step in allowing them to perform. Their performance is aided by ILLEGAL substances, and therefore he has defrauded the sport, and has no right to any results, records, bonuses, sponsorships, and payouts awarded. Those rights are forfeited!
Who cares about drugs, right? Just as a drug dealer can have ANYTHING taken from them, their house, car, anything when they are caught.

It's a much the crime of doing it, as it is the lying and deceiving everyone continually for years afterwards. No sympathy when they suddenly get a conscience, and admit it. Admit it after they've already been caught.

Sorry JR, your absurd response only supports the fact that people that think like you are people who think they can do what they want without consequence. And those are the people that really do end up alone.
Avocado's Number
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 6:31PM - in reply to Helio Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I read the arbitration panel's opinion rather quickly, so perhaps I missed some important legal or factual point, but I have to say that my initial reaction is that the opinion isn't very persuasive in its use of the doctrines of unclean hands, equitable tolling, and fraudulent concealment to overcome Eddy's argument for application of the six-year limitations period. Although I am not unsympathetic to efforts to eliminate Eddy's masters records and force disgorgement or forfeiture of prize money and other benefits -- and I am highly unsympathetic to the oft-expressed views of "ghost" regarding doping by Eddy and others -- I'm troubled by the panel's reasoning. It's often said that "hard cases make bad law," and this may be such a case.
J.R.
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 6:50PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

I do run run run wrote:

"So he took drugs, who cares?"
Exactly the mentality of drug dealers.


Actually drugs are important to drug dealers. And apparently they are important to you. They are not important to me.


Marion Jones ... served prison time because of her actions in the investigation into her TAKING DRUGS and CHEATING THE SPORT!


Wrong again. She was sent to prison for lying, not for taking drugs. If taking drugs were illegal, then the great majority of Americans would be in prison.


Their performance is aided by ILLEGAL substances


So you're a drug believer then, right? You believe drugs are required for doing your best? Is that why you talk about drugs all the time, and are thereby a DRUG ADVERTISER?


It's a much the crime of doing it, as it is the lying and deceiving everyone continually for years afterwards. No sympathy when they suddenly get a conscience, and admit it. Admit it after they've already been caught.


Wrong again. Taking drugs is not illegal, EXCEPT by corporate and pharmaceutical doctrine, thus the taking of drugs is a POLITICAL issue, not one of legality.


Sorry JR, your absurd response only supports the fact that people that think like you are people who think they can do what they want without consequence. And those are the people that really do end up alone.


Actually that is again not correct. Perhaps you should take a nap before reading THIS response and responding to it. It is just as easy to ASK me what I believe, rather than just trying to make it up as you go.

I do believe there are benefits and consequences to our actions and beliefs. I don't know how Eddy fits into your statement, as you'd have to ASK him, and I can see clearly that you're not into that.
ABQ Native
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 7:16PM - in reply to ghost Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ghost,

You may want to check your facts about Benoit. He admitted his drug use and talked about it openly to many of the runners that were in Albuquerque at the time. He consistently recommended people contact Eddy if they wanted some help.

Your facts are so far skewed when you have no inclination what was going on at the time. Were you there on the training runs? Did you hear the direct conversations that Eddy had with other athletes. He was pompass, crass, boastful, reaking of self-confidence, and disrespectful to all around him. His life and nearly all his words revolved around drugs. If you ran with Eddy, you were offered epo, MANY TIMES over and over.
I do run run run
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 7:44PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You don't even know what you're talking about. So you choose which laws to follow, and which ones you won't?

A drug believer? Belief has nothing to do with this topic or conversation. And as far as drugs in general, yes MANY drugs are illegal to even possess, so I'm going to stop you right there and not dignify you with any further response. You're clearly a troll.
aghast
RE: PEDdy Hellebuyk's Masters career wiped off the books 2/3/2012 8:17PM - in reply to I do run run run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Do you really believe Peddy happened to only start cheating right before he got caught???

Come on man
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