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| technically speaking |
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I'm interested in knowing what those of you who have tried these techniques have found. I've recently been experimenting with Evolution Running and Chi Running and have noted improvement in my running with ideas from both (faster pace at same heart rate and less bodily aches). |
| technically speaking |
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Nobody wants to touch this one, huh? |
| technically speaking |
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Nobody wants to touch this one, huh? |
| rekrunner |
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I don't know anything about Evolution running. I hear some people think Pose was "ripped off" of Chi. These guys have looked a lot at POSE, and barefoot running, and optimal footstrike: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/running-technique.html You might also want to read this: http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runner-communities/barefoot-running/chi-vs-pose-vs-evolution-running |
| rekrunner |
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| Randy Oldman |
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They definitely helped with my form. |
| Reverse Psychology |
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looks good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6Kq3zEuxM |
| technically speaking |
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Thanks, rekrunner. There is a lot of good info about the three concepts in the links you posted. I know that the authors of these concepts believe that what they are teaching mimicks the running technique of the Kenyans and Ethiopians. I definitely can feel a general reduction in overall leg fatigue and sense of effort with a combination of Evolution and Chi vs. my old "natural" way. |
| technically speaking |
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Was it a dramatic departure from how you used to run? How long did it take you to get comfortable racing with those techniques. I find it hard to maintain the form at race pace. |
| big dog |
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These running techniques are geared to older runners, weekend warrior types, in an attempt to minimize injuries. They are not necessarily a more efficient way to run fast. So without more information about you personally, your age, times, race distances, etc., it's impossible to say if any of these techniques are applicable to anything you do, aside from maybe a recovery run. This quote in the runner's world forum linked above is indicative of why you shouldn't blindly listen to the above running technique crowd, or the barefoot crowd, minimalist crowd, marathon / ultrarunner crowd: "the goal is basically, short stride, quick turnover, good posture and land under almost directly under your center of gravity." That simply is not the "goal" of a common distance raced in meets by competitive high school to post-collegiate aged runners. You can pick it apart and argue in a vacuum that one or the other is a component of efficient running / racing form, and may help a given individual, but you cannot make a sweeping statement like that and expect a competitive mid- to distance runner or coach to take you too seriously. |
| classof89 |
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If your goal is to run FAST then you need to exam sprint form and middle distance form (which is essentially "relaxed sprint"). The goal here is the longest stride length that is compatible with the quickest turnover. NO ONE will run a PR 40 yard dash time "chi running." If your goal is to run efficiently (in "low gear") then the chi running, barefoot (slow running) technique is applicable. Essentially it's a safer way to "jog". |
| technically speaking |
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I'm 45 years old and had gotten below 60 min for 10 miles almost 3 years ago on my regular old form. Then I had ACL knee surgery after an accident, and I've had injury trouble on my way back, but finally, with Evolution Running, I have had a consistent 4 months, and ran my first race 2 weeks ago, a 5K road in 18:20. I added some Chi technique in the past couple of weeks and ran a tempo that felt quite a bit easier than usual - 45 minutes at 6:20 pace, keeping my HR at just below my lactate threshold. So now I'm thinking that I should stay the course with these techniques and see where things go - I want to get as good as possible at 5K to 1/2 marathon distances. Steven Duplinsky was coached by Ken Mierke, the Author of Evolution Running, and I know he ran a 14:38 5K leg of a sprint triathlon in the Junior Division (He is featured in the Evolution Running DVD demonstrating the technique), so the technique is not only intended to reduce injury, but also improve performance(again, it is based on observations of East African elite runners). |
| edumacator |
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For the love of god, don't quote triathlon run distances as accurate. |
| big dog |
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Exactly what I thought. The people who seek out these techniques, just like the 30-50 year olds you see in the local running store debating which new fad shoe to purchase so they can PR in their next race, are not running fast enough to justify all this time spent debating all this stuff. I am 46 years old. I now run 6:20 pace for the marathon on just running everyday, no training plan, just run. Why, because I am too old and slow to care about lactate threshold and Pose techniques. I just run the way I feel when I wake up in the morning, get a time at the end of a given race, and then get back to running on Monday morning. I also coach middle to high school aged runners. I spend more and more time nowadays de-emphasizing the "magic bullet" their parents fed them this week that they read in RW, or in online blogs, or found in a book they picked up at the local running store, or heard from their "marathon team coach," and even have sent a few of them back to their locker before practice to change out of their new Vibram 5 fingers shoes. You are over-thinking it at an age when running realistically should become a simple pursuit to maintain mental and physical health. Face it, we are old. We can still run "fast" compared to others our age, but in reality, what is running a 2:46 marathon going to get me, bragging rights at the water cooler maybe? It is common phenomenon for people our age to go through a period of yearning for what could have been if you only did the new xyz training in college, but it is typically counter-productive for long-term enjoyment in a sport that we have engaged in for most of our lives now. That's my take, but to each his own. |
| cpaiglesias |
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Hig dog just nailed it! Nothing else to say. I might just have fun running the rest of the year if I remember his post. |
| reeder |
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I have the chi running book, have researched pose online and don't know much about evolution so I can't really compare the three techniques. I will say that I found a lot of the chi running book to be very helpful to my running. The book is not just about technique. The author stresses the importance of focus, breathing, body sensing, and relaxation. He also states several times that chi running is a lifelong practice. The people commenting on this thread saying that it is a "magic bullet" or a quick fix are actually stating the opposite of the truth. No where in the book does he claim its a quick fix, magic bullet or anything of the sort. |
| technically speaking |
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How "fast" do you have to be to discuss "this stuff"? You are here doing it! I find these discussions enjoyable, much like people enjoy discussing politics, which is much more unproductive than this is, in my opinion. Furthermore, this isn't about "magic bullets". This is about better running habits. You still have to put in the hard work to be fast, and this is clearly emphasized by Ken Mierke. Why should running only be to maintain mental and physical health? I really enjoy working on performance. Furthermore, I really have enjoyed working on my running technique - it actually feels much better to my mind and body to run with the techniques that Evolution Running and Chi Running espouse. The goal of these approaches are to improve your mental and physical health, not just maintain it. If you haven't experienced the pleasure in this, I guess you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. There is not a person in my life besides myself that I am trying to impress with my running performance, and I'll tell you what, again, it is really fun seeing what I've got. It keeps my running more interesting. This has nothing to do with what I could have done in college. This is about what I want to do when I'm 50 and beyond. I see nothing unhealthy in that. |
| Robert McDonald |
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Why would you make your runners change shoes? If it wasn't for minimalist shoes, I wouldn't be running. They saved me by forcing me to correct my form. The modern running shoe was invented by by Phil Knight, a University of Oregon runner, and Bill Bowerman, the University of Oregon coach. Bowerman called Nike's first shoe the Cortez - after the conquistador who plundered the New World for gold and unleashed a horrific smallpox epidemic. Bowerman's partner, Knight, set up a manufacturing deal in Japan and was soon selling shoes faster than they could come off the assembly line. Since then, running-shoe companies have had more than 30 years to perfect their designs so, logically, the injury rate must be in freefall by now. In a paper for the British Journal Of Sports Medicine last year, Dr Craig Richards, a researcher at the University of Newcastle in Australia, revealed there are no evidence-based studies that demonstrate running shoes make you less prone to injury. Not one. There are studies out there that show Achilles tendon blowouts have increased by 10%. The modern running shoe is all about money and nothing about injury prevention. I am not saying that Vibrams or Merril barefoot shoes are a magic bullet, but I know alot of people whos lives have changed because of minimalist running. So I ask again, why on earth would you force your students into a certain style shoe? Part of the information in this response was obtained from: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html |
| Jake Robertson |
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they r NOT micking knYan runners! i kno dis cause me ballin in kenYa in 4 years now niggah, i run like knYans, watch me youtube hoe pease |
| redux |
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Overall I agree with Big Dizzle's take on the issue. I am one of those neutral, mid/fore foot guys who lands on the little toe and rolls onto the big one and runs by "feel". I wear anything from 4mm minimal to 12mm traditional shoes. I also focus on all kinds of different stuff when I run. Sometimes I'm focused on lifting my knees more, or kicking back harder, or sitting back a little more, or leaning forward from my ankles a little more, or where my arms are because my shoulders are cramping, or penetrating deep or pulling out. I also ask myself questions like, "Am I sprinting slow or jogging like a slob?" Whatever it takes to run as fast as I can while remaining as comfortable as I can while pushing. For me that takes many minor form adjustments to relieve pressure and align my form. I do all this to exercise as many muscles as I can so I can have more gears. Call me an idiot if you want. |
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