Are the KENYANS AFRAID of the Ethopians?

There is an error in the link, but you can still read the article by going to

www.allafrica.com

and clicking the subject-athletics and you will see the article pretaining to Edith Masai and her comments!

Vipam

I could think of a few more people that can upset her, but let's start with Deena- double silver in x-c. At least 2 more Eth's. But that's racing, you never know. The Kenyan's may be battling more their competition instead of doing their best race.

Laughable? I think not. My belief is that the kenyans weakness is their mental state. They have too much pride. If you control the mental game with them you will win. Geb is the master at it. Sit on their hip and frustrate the crap out of them then make your move and say goodbye. Of course you have to be as fast as them first. Paul Tergat seems to be the exception. The younger the runner also works to their advantage, they have nothing to lose.

When Geb has been beaten he still has his head high. How many Kenyans come across the line after 1st with their head down? Twice geb has been attacked after a race by a kenyan who had some excuse for why he lost, insted of saying, shit, I got beat by a better runner today. Lets work on that so it doesn't happen again.

It is no secret that the Kenyans are losing ground both in the Track and Cross Country fast to their neighbor of the north - Ethiopia. This is usually not noticed due to the fact that most Ethiopian elite runners are not out their competing in all races available in every city. As such, the Kenyans put thier runners in these races and seem to dominate because they find easy competitors. But the truth is most important races such as IAAF Golden meets, Cross Country, World Championships, Olympics etc are usually dominated by both Kenyans and Ethiopians but the Ethiopians tipping the scale more than the Kenyans do. This is no disrespect to the great Kenyan runners such as Paul Tergat or others from the past.

Therefore, it is no wonder either Edith Massi or other officials? air their concerns. Actually as a truly running loving country they should be concerned because running is at the heart of their livelihood.

I'd imagine that that is Edith's personal opinion.

Ordinarily, Kenyans don't fear anyone. However, one thing is true; Kenyans keep looking over their shoulders for the Ethiopians and vice versa. In every major race and especially the worlds and the Ethiopians, these two countries don't take chances with each other. Personally, i wouldn't call that fear, it is caution/alertness, vigilance, watchfulness/providence, you name it.

Let me put it differently;

the night before any major race say in the olympics and the worlds, in either the Kenyan hotel room or the Ethiopian hotel room, you can bet to your last dime that these two nations plot against each other in long distance races. The talk is normally how to bring the other down. I am not sure whether that is fear or something else.

finally, let me say something that is obvious. Right now, Ethiopains have more superior runners - both male and female- to the Kenyans. The current crop of ethiopain runners is deadly and the world knows it.

I don't think the Kenyans are afraid of the Ethiopians or lack confidence, but it's undeniable the Ethiopians have done a better job lately preparating for World Championships and Olympic competitions. It's largely due to the fact that the Ethiopian federation is much more strict and apparently better organized than their Kenyan counterpart, Athletics Kenya. In the past, matters such as team selection, training camp location/conditions, athletes failing to report to training camps on time, and the interference of agents have all compromised Kenyan preparations for high level competitions.

However, when it comes to big money races the Kenyans usually dominate. Unfortunately for them, their focus on these paydays comes at a cost - their performances in the WC, WXC and Olympic events. If the athletes and Athletics Kenya made winning WC and Olympic medals for their country as high a priority as a fat payday they'd both be better off.

Kenya suffers from many years of official corruption and an very high level of competition which leads to a "get yours while you can" attitude. Too many athletes, realizing how tough it is getting to the top level (and making Kenyan Olympic or WC team) let alone staying there, focus on short term money rather than developing their careers over the long term. Hence, the recent defections to Gulf States by guys like Cherono, Chepkurui, Kemboi, Mucheru, et al. All are have guaranteed financial security and a spot on their new country's team. The Ethiopian federation has done a much better job of managing long term careers, preventing burnout from over-racing etc.

Having said that, some of the Ethiopian results of late have been a little fishy - 12:58 second 5k, three Ethiopian guys nearly lapping the entire field?? Come on. Maybe the Ethiopian federation is a little too good?

My take on it, just by watching the racing, is that Kenya spends too much time strategizing against the Ehiopians to their detriment.

It worked very well for Paul T. against Geb in x-c races, Geb often complained he wasn't winning because of team work by the Kenyans. But Bekele doesn't seem deterred at all, he wasn't getting much help from his team mates on the 12k last year or the previous year?? He ran up front with the Kenyan crew and when he decided to up the pace, the Kenyans looked like race walkers, arms flying all over the place- they just about gave up after 20-30 seconds. Bekele, just as smooth as can be. The Kenyans actually sacrificed the previous days race to push the pace to take the legs out of Bekele-they said so much- didn't work. I'm quite sure the Ethiopian trio during the 10000M at Paris knew they were in outstanding shape and went for a slow first 5000M of 10000M so they could save their legs for the 5000M 3-4 days later. Bekele was flat on the 5000M?

The steeple race was a joke, attitude got in the way of the Kenyans. But then again that's probably what makes them so good, they want to win- 2nd doesn't cut it. I'm not sure they are going the right way about it however???

I think the Ethiopians are using some tactics, but the main one being get the best race you can perform without letting emotions/ strategy ruin the performance.

Vipam and N and O

The idea that the Kenyans are afraid of the Ethopians seems more like a reality to me than something I would laugh at. I really feel that Geb took alot away from the Kenyans confidence when he routinely beat them on the track and indoors when he decided to, despite the Kenyans thinking they could beat the lone Ethopian. The trend continued for over a decade as the Kenyans tried numerous tactics to overcome Geb. Fast forward to 2001 when a teenager dominates the Jr World X-Country Championships and places second in the Senior short course. The next year he wins both the long and short course with relative ease and the Kenyans vow revenge; however, they recieved more of the same in 2003 seeing Kenenisa float away from them at the World X-Country Championships and the World Outdoor Championships. I think that Edith Masai hit it right on the head when she said that; however, I think that it really only hit the Kenyans in the last two to three years (Geb is back from injury and better than ever and he isn't the best 10000m in his country). It would seem to me that that would cause any great running country to hold some sort of fear for that type of competitor. I think that the Kenyans have a much deeper supply of talent than the Ethopians; therefore, why aren't they winning more than their counterparts?

Question

Question wrote:

I think that the Kenyans have a much deeper supply of talent than the Ethopians; therefore, why aren't they winning more than their counterparts?

Question

First, you have good observation, and I agree with your analysis. As to the deeper supply of talents, it is my understanding that coming out of over 20 years of communist suppression, the country needs some time to organize and develop the talent pool available in the country.

I think that a lot of the shift of power has to do with the relative stability of the athlete management/development system at work in Ethiopia, especially when compared to that in Kenya. When you look at the top runners from Ethiopia, are they not all with pretty much one manager/coach or at least with a very few?

In Kenya the athlete management scene is something of a free-for-all, and athletes are routinely switching from one manager to another and back again. Every manager has his or her top athlete, and they all want their athletes on the squad - regardless of how disruptive this might be to team chemistry & training programs. These same managers also hedge their bets, and guarantee their incomes, by racing these same athletes in Europe and even on the US roads - insuring that they make money should the Olympic dream fall through. The Ethiopians certainly do get out and race a bit, but it seems far more organized - like it's written into the training program.

Also, I think the competitive selection process in Kenya is very tough and fairly cutthroat. With Ethiopia, it seems like we can already name who will be on the Ethiopian team for Athens and in what events. With Kenya, who can guess. Last January I sure wouldn't have picked Kipchoge to win the 5000 at Worlds - not when I was watching him run in the Jr. division at the local XC meets. The top athletes have to approach the trials as though it's the Olympic final, and it seems that many are past their peak by the time the actual championship rolls around.

The Kenyans are totally unable to develop an adequate training plan that focuses them toward the championships, and they have to run like madmen just to make the team. Even their trials are only "suggestions." Every year athletes finish in the top 6 at the "trials" only to be cut in the training camp.

The Kenyans are busy fighting one another for spots on the team, meanwhile the Ethiopians are busy training to fight for spots on the podium.

Should the Kenyans be scared of the Ethiopians, it sure looks like it.

I would have to say I agree with your assessment there Mzungu. Its always seemed that the Kenyans really have to go nuts just to make the team. I mean Daniel Komen never made an olympic team for instance. Whereas we know Geb will be running the 10k in Athens and Bekele will join him. So they can plan for that now.

That being said the Kenyan system does do a great job of exposing new talent simply because of how savage the competition is. Then we get guys like Kipchoge, Kemboi, Cherono and such, but eventually I think the free for all catches up to them all.

I think last year although Geb and Bekele especially really took it to the Kenyans I think Chebeii and Kipchoge really did a lot for Kenyans in the times they beat them. The Kenyans can still do it and they know it. But they have to survive their system to have a chance, and that is more than half the battle it seems

mzungu and MacKenzie

I disagree with both of you! The Kenyans have the same selection process that they had for the last three decades-when they were Gold medals in Mexico, Barcelona, and Atlanta. Even in the European meets they routinely lost against Geb and now Kenenisa. Are you trying to tell me they are fighting to make the team for the European circuit?

It doesn't matter what part of the season it is X-Country, European circuit, or major championships the Kenyans have fallen behind the Ethopians in term of beating their counterparts. The Kenyans had over 44% of the top 40 year end times in 2003 from 800m to the Marathon but you couldn't tell by their medal haul. Maybe a world class athlete from Kenyan like Edith Masai know from interaction with HER FELLOW teammates if they fear the Kenyans or not!

Question

Dang it. I had a nice big response typed up and then "poof" it's gone. Anyway, good points being made here. The Kenyans are definitely using the same old system - part of the problem? The Ethiopians have raised the bar, and the Kenyans will need to monitor and adjust. The fragmentation of the scene in Kenya - the rather mercenary spirit that the agents seem to perpetuate, plays right into the Ethiopians' hands. The point about the European results is good, but it's not totally one sided.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see who runs lights-out in Europe early and fails to make the team and who bides their time early and shines in Athens - and who comes out of nowhere with a big surprise.

Or maybe our good ol' boys will swoop in and sweep a few medals for us.

Now, lets all just hope that the races will actually be televised so we can see how it plays out.

If you look at the world iaaf rankings at Ethiopian Women Run 8 out of the top 10 times in the 5000 with 6 runners under 14:45 and 3 under 14:40.. so that is HUGE...and in the 10,000 its pretty much the same thing.

However, in the mens Ethiopia had only 2 of the top 10 kenya accounted for 6 (7 if you count shaheen. The Ethio's definately held there own on the 10,000 but without geb, Kenenisa is the single soldier.

Holding Kenya at bay with one soldier is not going to work... it may work with an altime worrior like Geb. Its a start to see shine and gebremariam who were flat last year.. but may be rise fast this year.. Both Shine and Gebremariam.. had mid season breakdowns from overtraining...

The marathon is a different story. Fortunately, the old coach.. tolossaa Kotu is gone.. And Yilma Berta is in... maybe that makes a difference

the kenyans without epo are afraid of the americans.......shorter, liquouri, ryun and salazar showed the kenyans their backs on several occassions. but then rosa brought epo to africa....

The only thing the E. Africans are worried about is someone having the guts to pull the plug on the drug experimentation that's allowed to go on with the runners from that region. If the IAAF would actually go after the drug cheats and their coaches/managers/doctors/agents you'd see them lose 75% of their dominance.

Mustapha is a goat, a billy goat.

......and Marvin too.

Nah, they're just perceptive and realistic.