| more common than you think |
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http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/08/02/wisconsin-father-found-guilty-prayer-death-case/ "Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the March 23 death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes. Prosecutors contended he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she couldn't walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing. ... "Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, testified Thursday that he believed God would heal his daughter and he never expected her to die. God promises in the Bible to heal, he said. "'If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann testified. "I am not believing what he said he would do.'" |
| jessica simpson |
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I don't think he should do jailtime though no matter how misguided his action or lack of action was. |
| Brad ONeil - SR - Coe College |
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"Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed." All of the people in this prayer circle are monsters. |
| messed up |
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If there is a God, he probably worked it out so that a doctor at the nearest hospital was going to be free at the exact moment that Madeline's parents would have brought her in. He shouldn't have put so much trust in these idiots to do the right thing unfortunately. |
| haha, YO |
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"Dale Neumann was doing what he thought would work for his daughter," Kronenwetter said. "He was administering faith healing. He thought it was working." What indications were there it was working? What a load of crap, I hope this dude sits in jail for some time. |
| 45uwq |
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At the very least, I hope he doesn't reproduce anymore. |
| ponytayne |
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I am a scientist. My wife is a scientist who works in clinical diabetes research. We have two family friends whose kids have diabetes. I have seen what diabetes can do to kids. It is awful to watch. But knowing the child has diabets, you know what to do to bring them out of sugar or insulin shock (before the ambulance arrives of course). If the father did not know she had diabetes, then he should have been scared to death seeing what was happening to his daughter. Why on earth would you not call a doctor? That is so sad for the little girl. Even as a skeptical scientist, I am not against faith. Faith in some higher purpose or higher being or whatever has pulled countless people through tough ordeals (cancer, trauma, learning to walk after a car wreck, you name it), but in all those cases the people were seeking medical assistance and treatment. In this day of information, if one actually forgoes medical treatment for a child and relies on prayer to take care of a genuine medical condition, then they absolutely should be convicted of a crime when the child is permanently damaged or killed. So sad. |
| blahchc |
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While I am an atheist, I'd suggest he think about this: A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle." Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle." With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter." |
| guys |
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I just want to add that there's a fable (can't think of a better word) that was told to me by my rabbi. A man was out to sea one day and his boat capsized leaving him clinging to a piece of it in the water. Another boat passed by and told him to get on, but he refused exclaminig, "God will save me." A helicopter then flew overhead and dropped a rope for him to be pulled up on, again he refused with the same proclamation that, "God will save me." Eventually the man drowned. When he went up to heaven he asked God why he did not save him. "Who do you think sent the boat and the helicopter?" God responded. This is not a way to lead into a religious debate, but for those who are religious and believe that their child or loved one will be saved by a miracle, use this line of thought; The miracle is that one hundred years ago the disease would have been a death sentence and that the doctors and medicince are the miracle, so use them instead of sitting around watching. |
| guys |
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damn, guy beat me to it. |
| ponytayne |
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I've heard that joke before, but it is good. It also sort of backs up what I wrote above - that even the overwhelming majority of faithfully religious people seek out medical attention when they need it. The same argument of the miracle being the boat and the helicopter could be applied to humans' knowledge and creativity, allowing us the power to create technology and the procedure to heal our fellow man. |
| blahchc |
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Hehe. |
| fanatical religious freak |
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Really, now, this isn't that big of a deal. |
| roboto attack |
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god must have been on vacation or something...he usually doesn't let this happen. |
| Wake up Sheep |
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Further proof that God doesn't exist and that religious people are blind sheep... |
| Guppy |
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Stories like this deeply upset me. Just now I feel compelled to write a lengthy response, but I've been pretty politcal and outspoken on NRR subjects here lately, so I better not. Just one thing though, you wonder why atheists have a problem with religion? It's stories like this. |
| religilous |
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God loves his children, that's why he kills them. |
| on the runs |
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I'm shocked she didn't die of starvation as the da waited for God to nourish her. I hope he goes to jail, suffers, and learns how brainwashed he is. |
| what next? |
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will he pray for his cellmate to stop a$$raping him? |
| Disgusted |
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wow...this happened in Wausau! That is only 30 mins away from where I live. CREEPY |