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| JimG |
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Purpose of this thread is to gather overall impressions of the race, not just the timing/results aspect (which appears to have been cleared up by 7 pm Sunday). Your comments will be particularly valuable if you ran this race before, either last year or prior. My own .02 from running the first half of it today: Improved from last year (perhaps that's not saying much, I know). Bag check & pickup was easy & quick for me, although I had a super high # so maybe not as many people putting stuff on that bus. Using all 6 lanes of the Franklin Pkwy was a huge improvement over last year, but things got crowded after Logan Cir. when the 2 races merged, There was construction on Arch St. that narrowed the road down for a block and many runners were hopping on the sidewalk there. Seemed like all the mile clocks were in the right place this year. I missed running through the Japanese Gardens, one of the nicer sections on the "old" course. Making the counterclockwise loop in front of the Art Museum was good, although I'm not sure how the 180 farther down the road was for the full marathoners - should have checked that out. Was pleased that when we came off Belmont Plateau we headed south on West River Dr. rather than heading north and making a 180, as the map seemed to indicate. Can't speak to the second half of the course but looking at the map I now see the added loop around Lemon Hill - that had to suck. I guess they couldn't move the turnaround in Manayunk any farther out. IMO all these changes have to some degree screwed up what was an almost perfect marathon course, and all b/c of the addition of the half last year. Doing so created multiple splits from 11 to 13 miles, so this is how they "solved" that problem, essentially creating more issues in the marathon course. Pre-race the expo was better than in the tent like last yr., but Temple is out of the way and the facility wasn't very conducive to good traffic flow - they should have it at the Convention Ctr. in Center City, close to many of the hotels the runners are staying in. There are some other issues but it would be interesting to hear what others say. I will make sure this thread is read by the race organizers as well as people from the Phila. Tourism Board. |
| justwatched |
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I was just up watching some athletes that I coach - I actually thought things went pretty well. The race started a good 10 minutes late which is an inconvenience for athletes but nothing major. The 180 degree turn in the full was a little ridiculous and should be taken out. It was also really slippery. They don't do much to help elite athletes out, which would be nice, but that's their choice so can't fault them there. Other than that, it was solid. Not a great event but I didn't see any major problems (unless the rumor of the half-marathon leaders being sent the wrong way is true). Oh and the announcer is annoying. We get it you think people in Philly say yo a lot.... |
| rankler |
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Please note that there was not one 180-degree turn, but two. One at mile 13 and one at mile 20. The mile 20 one was much worse, and I personally witnessed one fall there. Also, the timing sensors were very slippery. Both of these things are major safety issues. |
| JimG |
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Some finishers #s from the past 2 yrs: 2007 Marathon - 6677 finishers Half - 4333 8K - 1275 2006 Mar - 6197 Half - 1956 8K - 1440 So, the marathon was up slightly, 8K down - biggest growth was in the Half (so surprise) and therefore that had to be the reason the race capped early. |
| Pete |
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We were there - my wife ran the marathon and I ran the 8k. I met her just before 13 miles and ran the rest of her race with her, so I saw the second half but not the first. Pre-race expo - the facility was fine, although it got a little crowded and after we left (~ 1:30 pm Saturday) the line for numbers wrapped around the whole building. Parking was a nightmare, but I gather that's a common problem in the city? We finally parked in the attached indoor lot. Price was a little steep ($10 flat), but it was convenient, and I didn't want to drive around hunting for a spot anymore. 8k race - no complaints here. I'd heard it's a lightning fast course, and that was my experience. Not much crowd support out on the course, but I didn't expect any. Not sure if the mile markers were off or if the 3rd mile was a gradual uphill (with maybe a headwind), but that mile was 15 s slower than all the others, and I felt I maintained a consistent effort the whole way (and I wasn't losing ground during that mile). From my point of view (ahead of the bulk of the crowd), it was a good race with no complaints. Official clock/chip time was exactly 1.2 s different from my watch, so I gather it was accurate, or very close anyway. Marathon start - OK it was ~ 10-15 minutes late, sure. I was standing at the porta potties and thought they'd started a couple of times (MC's chatter died out, so I thought they'd gone). When the "gun" finally went off, I don't think there was any warning, at least I didn't hear any First half - nothing to report at my end. I suspect the 1 mile clock was off, since my wife thought she'd taken 3:40 to cross the line (based on the difference between her watch and the mile clock), but her official times make it more like 2:30. Which pushed her 1:10 further away from a BQ that we thought she'd only missed by ~ 15s. I don't think she's seen her chip time yet (she's away on business) so I expect she'll be a little pissed when she finds out. Oh well, her time is her time. halfway area - it was a little congested on the little hill approaching the half/marathon split, and I almost didn't find her. Some have complained about the 180 turn for the marathoners, but I didn't think this first one was too bad at all. It was a fairly gradual turn, and luckily it was dry. second half - this was hiller than I expected, but I had no basis for expecting anything one way or another, since we'd never been to this race. Waterstops were well manned, although I found the volunteers crowded the road too much, which impeded progress a little. I know they were just trying to do their jobs, trying to get closer to the runners, and probably didn't realize they were creating minor bottlenecks. This didn't slow us down, but it did irritate my wife (who was irritable in the second half - she was running the second half of a marathon, after all, ha). I liked the unofficial beer stop, and I grabbed a beer (why not?) My wife gave me shit for burping later on - said the smell made her feel sick. Oops! :-) The 180 turn at 20 miles was a little tight. I didn't find it slippery myself, but I wasn't moving at race pace, so I wouldn't notice I guess. This turn would probably cost people a couple of seconds (unless they fell). No big deal - that's part of road racing. Gel at 18 and 22 miles - someone on the other Philly thread said they was no gel, but they had it for sure when we ran by, as I grabbed one in case my wife wanted it. Maybe they didn't have it out in time for the lead runners, I don't know. Finish - I think the clock was off by a few seconds (fast), because I missed the starting siren by a few seconds (since there was no audible warning (at least from the portapotties, which were quite a ways from the start), and the official gun time was the same as my watch time. Overall, I thought the event ran just fine. I've read a lot of complaints in the other thread, but I didn't see anything worth complaining about, other than some minor irritants. I got the sense that the city is very aware of the race, and I didn't hear any complaining about traffic restrictions, road closures etc from the people we met. Congrats to the city for supporting the race. The weather was almost perfect - it wasn't as cold as forecast, and the nasty wind and rain held off until after the race (in time for the football game I guess). |
| Pete |
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I should add that I thought crowd support in the second half was quite good. There were stretched with no spectators, but there were also many places with a lot of spectators. I forgot to mention there was a guy giving away chocolates, and another station where they gave away brownies. Personally, I enjoy little touches like that. The post-race feed tent was well stocked with a decent variety of snacks. Change tents on both sides of the bag check area was very convenient. We couldn't find a massage area (which we'd read about on the website), if there was one. Oh - the one MAJOR disappointment..... my wife didn't get to climb the Rocky steps after the race. You have to cross over the finish area from the recovery area to get there. Had we gone to the left, beyond the finish, we could have got there, but we went the other way, and you would have had to walk much farther than my wife's legs wanted to carry her to get there that way. I walked up the steps after my race before she arrived at the half, but didn't take any pictures. Damn! That's my biggest complaint, though, and it was my own fault (I knew we could get around the other way, but in semi-dehydrated state didn't piece the logic together in the moment). |
| the questioner |
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Were the anti-choice guys with their posters of aborted fetuses out there this year? |
| Pete |
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I couldn't say. If I had seen something like that, it would have only added to the flavour for me. Not the pictures I suppose, but the sight of a protest/demonstration. Land of free speech, right? |
| stillrunning |
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from the Phila Inquirer... http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20071119_Wall_of_Support.html My daughter ran yesterday, her first (mine as well, many years ago)... from what I could see, and from her experience, the delayed start in the cold conditions was about the only issue, at least from her POV. We drove around and met her at various spots on the course, it seemed pretty well organized to me (water stops, turn in Manayunk, finish, food tent, clothing pickup). She had no problems at registration. Lots of spectators/cheering at many spots, although the out and back on Kelly Drive for the most part is pretty desolate. I think they got all the essential things right... agree on those with final time issues, and hope those will get worked out, expect that will be the case. Congratulations to all who competed. |
| Miles from Eugene |
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I ran the 8k yesterday, I liked the course but if they had mile markers I must have been clueless because I never saw them. Could have been a lack of oxygen. Did someone else in the 8k race actually see them? I saw a time clock partway into the course but there was no sign by it to say what mile it was. I'm guessing it was at 2 miles but that's all I noticed. Anyway I looked at the results this morning and they had my clock time exactly right, but my chip time was off by 5 minutes (too fast). So it showed me as running 26:20 which was not right. If anyone knows someone at the race I can contact to get that straight let me know because otherwise it will throw off the master's men's results. I also agree with some other people that the announcer got very annoying after a while. The PA was so loud that I felt like Captain Kirk when the aliens were torturing him with weird noises all the time. Anyway everyone in Philadelpia was really nice, I enjoyed the race except for freezing my butt off. |
| og |
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I ran the 8k and the only mile marker i saw was mile 4 (marked on the right hand side of road in small letters) and i don't recall if they had clock at this mile marker. Not having mile markers in a race of that caliber is unacceptable. |
| Did That One Too |
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Overall it was a good race, but I would second some of the complaints already listed. Late start was a drag, especially because it was cold and there was little room to stay loose. Finish line clock was about 8 seconds under than the "official" clock. Anyone who cruised in for that sub-3 (or sub-whatever) because they thought they had a margin will be sorely pissed off when they see their official time. The 180 turns and those curves at Lemon Hill were a drag and could have been a WHOLE lot worse if it had been a few degrees colder. They were lucky this year, and I can't give them credit for luck. Any RD of a supposed major marathon that saw the Cheruiyot fall at Chicago in 2006 should be smart enough to take some simple precautions, and putting something like rubberized pads or some no-slip surface on those turnarounds would have been a good idea. Their "chip" system is an improvement over Champion Chip. Nothing to remove from your shoe at the end. Although I personally know at least 2 runners that finished that aren't in the results, and the numbers (~6800 out of 10K registered?) indicate there could be a fair amount of others missing. Seeding the start might be a good idea, given the large number of runners. Heard other runners complain about no 5K splits. I suppose our international friends are particularly concerned about those. Crowd support was excellent, especially considering the poor weather for spectators. Water stations were too short - too few tables. They could probably do it with the same number of tables if they just spread them out further. I often will take 2 cups, a water then a Gatorade, but the water stations were so short that after 2 or 3 sips of water I was well beyond the station. Given the late start I didn't really mind, but I was surprised that there was no National Anthem before the start, especially given the location of the race! Someone commented on the clock at 1 mile. It was fast by about a minute for some reason. Expo should definitely be closer to Center City! Overall it was a pretty good race and with a few tweaks could be even better. |
| Pete |
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I ran the 8k. There was a clock at each mile marker, located at about 6 ft height. I didn't realize for sure what it was when I saw the first one (I thought maybe it was a random chip mat to keep people honest) because there was no marking to indicate "mile 1" or anything, but my time was on par for the first mile, so I assumed that's what it was. Then I knew what to look for, and actually recorded my splits at the other clocks. In the marathon, each of these clocks also had a prominent number so you knew which mile, but these were absent in the 8k. That's a minor detail, but would probably be good to fix it for next year. If you're going to have the trouble of having accurate mile splits (which I gather they were from the race certification drawing and the markings I saw on the road beside a couple of them) you might as well let people know what they are. |
| JimG |
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If you look at the course map for the marathon, the 5K splits are indicated - in fact, when I was out on W. River Dr. Sat AM I spotted the small mark for 20K. Evidently the organizers didn't remember to put up signs there, but even last minute they could have painted the road as was done for all the miles. |
| dpmrunner |
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I saw all the mile markers in the 8k, but possibly b/c I was traveling more slowly than the rest of you. ;) Also noticed, like the other poster, my time at mile 3 was slower than at the other markers. Hadn't thought it was long, just that I'd pushed a bit earlier and probably was paying for it. But maybe it was longer if others had the same experience. I have no first-hand impressions of the marathon, although friends who ran told me the 180 turns and the addition of Lemon Hill weren't welcome--other than that, things seemed pretty smooth. I'm familiar with the beer, chocolate, and brownie stops from past Philly marathons... that beer was a very welcome touch last time I ran it! Timing: At first, on the web site they listed my clock and chip times as identical, although they were about a minute apart--but they've since corrected the chip time. (I was warming up, thinking that if the marathon start was delayed, the 8k start would be more of a wait than it was... suddenly, I found I had to sprint to get to the start!). Didn't see any change tents, but did find the massage tent (tender knees, so I always make sure I have them worked on after a race). The baggage check was a LOT more organized than last year's. However, I didn't use it b/c a friend lives near the start and I was able to stow my bag in her apartment. Congrats to all who ran and good recoveries to all! I ran the 8k. There was a clock at each mile marker, located at about 6 ft height. I didn't realize for sure what it was when I saw the first one (I thought maybe it was a random chip mat to keep people honest) because there was no marking to indicate "mile 1" or anything, but my time was on par for the first mile, so I assumed that's what it was. Then I knew what to look for, and actually recorded my splits at the other clocks. In the marathon, each of these clocks also had a prominent number so you knew which mile, but these were absent in the 8k. That's a minor detail, but would probably be good to fix it for next year. If you're going to have the trouble of having accurate mile splits (which I gather they were from the race certification drawing and the markings I saw on the road beside a couple of them) you might as well let people know what they are.[/quote] |
| 234wash |
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They had a digital clock at all four mile markers. |
| Keith Stone |
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I hadn't run Philly before. I went with a group of about 40 from my area. Most were running the full marathon, but a few (such as myself) were running the half. We also had a few in the 8K. First impression at the expo wasn't good. The expo location was undersized and out of the way. Organization seemed haphazard. If you came in from the parking ramp after getting ripped off for $10 you had to go to the front to look up your number, then loop nearly all the way around to get to the back of the line. After standing line for about 1/2 hour we were told to split up by number, then when my wife finally got to the front they abandoned that and just had a free for all. Others that came later in the day reported just as bad of a wait. In these days of computers you'd think the whole thing of looking up your number first is a bit silly anyway. I've been assigning my race bib #'s by name for years, no excuse to not do this. When I picked up my number I was told to get my packet, then get my t-shirt. I wandered the floor looking for "Packet Pickup" signs, but none were to be found. I was not alone, I then decided the heck with it and when to the "t shirt" table and discovered you got both t-shirts and packets there. Later I found out several people in our group didn't get packets, only shirts, so they improvised for the drop-off. Race morning found confusion at the hotel. The hotel (Holiday Inn Historic District) had a sign up for a shuttle, but it turned out it was only for the expo and not race day and they forgot to take it down. Many runners started hailing cabs, my wife and I used the two mile walk as a warm-up. Once we got to the race site the drop-off wasn't hard to find but we searched for the meet up area that was supposed to be there and never found one. We met some others in our group and headed for the start. I tried to make one last trip to the portajons but the lines were WAY too long. Some annoucements that spectators should wait until after the race started would have been helpful. Once at the start there was no signage that said "half this side, full this side" and I saw numerous people on the wrong side. I figured it out by going with the majority of bibs. I later heard there were announcements, but I never heard them. The start was a real cluster. We were delayed, then we were going to start in one minute, then five minutes which lasted about 10, then three minutes, and before 3 minutes were up the siren went off. Luckily I was in the slow-poke section so everyone stood there like stunned cattle. The folks in the front must have been in for a surprise. Organization on the course was better. I did see some water stops getting overwhelmed particularly where the streets were narrow at the beginning. Some enforcement of the "no parking special event" would have helped that. At one point I came to a complete stop due to congestion. Crowd support was good, and the course wasn't bad from the half standpoint. I do think calling it flat was a real stretch. There are a couple good pulls in the half. Nothing terrible, but certainly not flat. I only missed one mile marker, and I likely just zoned out. Post-race tent was good, although it was complicated getting back into the tent if you need to meet someone. I'd recommend giving up on the whole coupon idea and just have people show a bib. After the race I heard annoucements that anyone trying to find someone should go to the Crocs tent. Sending a few thousand people to a 10x30 tent seemed like a bad idea, but I luckily saw my wife finish and didn't have to hunt for her. I also noticed several "best way to finish" signs that seemed to direct people to an area they'd end up having to cross the half and/or full courses to view from, forcing them to make annoucements to shoo people away from an area the signs told them to go to. I will also note there were several unprotected wires just laying around in the grass. In several occations I saw people snag and/or trip over them. Not good for the person, the wire, or whatever was at the end of the wire. I was standing right next to the awards ceremony and I felt bad the winners weren't able to get more recognition. Nearly everyone up there didn't understand what was happened and were facing the other way looking at the finish. Not sure how to fix that with the finish layout the way it is, but it seemed somewhat pointless to make them come out of the shelter to get an award in the cold. Maybe have the awards (and shelter) next to the finish so people watching for their friends / relatives to finish would see the winners by default. In any case, my recommendations would be: -Have the expo closer to the hotels, preferably walking distance. -Choose an expo venue that can handle the number of people and isn't a rabbit warren -Give up on the bib # lookup, sort the bibs by name -More, and more appropriate, signage -Enforce no parking signs on the course -Create a meet-up area -Have a clock that can be seen from the side at the finish -Be more aware of safety issues. Wires, potholes, etc. |
| Boston Running Girl |
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I know that this is an effort to get a general impression of the experience, but my entire impression is colored by the fact that the results still aren't complete or correct (more than 48 hours later). When I crossed the finish line, I was relatively happy with the marathon experience. Two days later, I'm bitter at the fact that I don't know my official time and will probably never be confident of my place. |
| Keith Stone |
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That's true, of the forty people I was with three still aren't in the results. |
| Philly Participant |
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I think this and the other thread covered almost everything that I can think of. First, I'll say that I really enjoyed the run and had no problems at the expo. After I let things settle in, I felt that I'd do this race again. That said, here are some comments. I hope the organizers read this thread and others like it on other sites (not that I visit any other running sites): Expo: I went on Saturday around 2:00. The line moved pretty quickly. Volunteers didn't seem to know very much but they're volunteers and races don't seem to instruct any volunteers very well. They're needed so glad they were on hand. Seemed like there were a lot of them! Instructions: What's the deal with this event. Seems like they say one thing and do another: 1. Food will be bagged ahead of time so everyone is sure to get enough. No, food was not bagged. No real biggie. 2. There will be a massage tent. I've now read that there was one but certainly didn't see it and the volunteers I spoke to weren't sure about it. 3. Just follow the directions for tying on your timing strip. I had no problems so unfortunately, I can't lie to my teammates about my time or about being passed by the guy in the pink dress. However, I think the timing system needs some work, like stronger plastic. The guy who lined up next to me had to tuck it under his laces because the strip tore and couldn't be attached as instructed. If I had no official time for running 26.2 miles, I'd be really pissed! 4. No instruction that the chicken broth in the food tent was hotter than that McDonald's coffee. I missed my chance to become rich because I noticed this before trying to drink it. By the way, once it cooled to under 212, it really helped me warm up and stop shivering. Good idea, just don't superheat it. 5. Not enough instruction about which side to line up on. I only heard it once but maybe it was repeated. 6. Urgent instruction to get to the starting line because the race was to start in 10 minutes. I was still outside the restroom at that point and hurried in there so that I wouldn't be late. I think the fastest I moved all day was the sprint from exiting the bathroom to the bag check then to the start line. Fortunately, they gave me an extra 10 minutes to catch my breath. Unfortunately, the 10 minute warning was really a 20 minute warning, leaving us just standing there after lots of us got rid of our old t-shirts and garbage bags. 7. The course is on the website. I might be wrong but I think that it was different. Other comments: The first couple of mile markers were suspect, especially #1 or at least the clock at that point. In mile 3 or 4 there was a sharp right turn immediately after the water stop, which was placed on the right hand side of the road. Perhaps this should have been set up on the left hand side so as to not create a traffic jam. There were a few other places on the course where things got slow but could easily have been avoided with better logistics planning. Finally, when will people at any marathon learn that if they've never run an X minute mile, they shouldn't be lining up in front of the x:xx pace group? Some marathons do a much better job of controlling this than others. I thought Chicago was great when I did it. Anyway, even with all these comments, I'd come back again. |
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