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really?
Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 3:42PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
No, I am not a troll, just someone who has been thinking about this a little for some unknown reason lately. I have trained decently hard (70 MPW hard workouts) for a fair number of years, and have nothing special to show for it(decent PR's, but nothing eye popping). It just seems to me like most people really could do just as well as I have or better at running (sub 4:20 mile, not much else) if they cared to. From what I've read on these boards, it appears a lot of people here ran 4:30 miles off of no training, and practically all decent high school athletes from other sports can dip under 2:00 and 4:30 All this has kind of made me just want to toss it in. Don't know if I really have a point, just wondering if others feel the same way, that running is pretty much a joke, and if most people actually cared to be good at it they could, or if maybe I'm wrong for some reason?
Tom Shane
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 3:53PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You know, running a 4:20 mile is like bench pressing 350-375 pounds. To a non-lifter, that is a staggering amount of weight. Can you imagine how pumped you'd feel if you could do that? Can you imagine some bodybuilder trying to chug out a 4:20 mile??

However, there are a few lifters who can bench press 500, 600 pounds and more. Of course they are the genetic freaks, sort of like our few sub-3:50 and 3:45 milers. We tend to be too hard on ourselves and our performances. We really are pretty damn good athletes as 4:20-ish milers, but among hardcore runners, that time is probably not given as much credit as it should be.
sandiegan/sandiegoan?
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 3:53PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
really? wrote:

and practically all decent high school athletes from other sports can dip under 2:00 and 4:30


Troll or no troll...I dont really think that's the case. Basketball, Football, Baseball, Tennis, I cant think of any other sport where high school athletes can go sub 2/430. even take decent athletes in other track events (hurdles, 100/200, etc)- i would bet that most of those folks would find sub 2 and 430 difficult.
yepyep
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 3:56PM - in reply to sandiegan/sandiegoan? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Baseball? Football?
Run5k
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 4:13PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
really? wrote:

...and practically all decent high school athletes from other sports can dip under 2:00 and 4:30.


I'm sorry, but you are WAY off base with that remark.

Baseball pitchers often incorporate aerobic runs into their training regime, but there is simply no way that "practically all" of the young men who may be all-league in that discipline can run a sub-4:30 on the track. The truth is probably something closer to 5%, and even that is being generous!
really?
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 4:18PM - in reply to Run5k Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Havent really personally witnessed any of this stuff, but it just is thrown around on these boards a lot that most good athletes are in other sports, and everyone and their uncle on here has seemed to at one point or another talk about the mediocre baseball/football/soccer player who came out and laid down an astounding time, notably on some "are soccer players good at track" thread or something to the like a few weeks back.
My Opinion
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 5:13PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Soccer players who excel on the field tend to have natural speed and endurance, plus the fact that the workouts and games that they partcipate in are vO2 max type workouts. Take a soccer player and make him run a hard 10 miler, and he will be hurting - but he might just be able to bust a sub 5 or faster mile without any previous race experience.
dagdfasd
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 5:14PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't know what you're talking about. There's no way that a large number of high school athletes from other sports are able to run 4:30 miles.
this is god speaking...
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 5:18PM - in reply to Run5k Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
especially since the other sports now have kids that are just plain BIGGER (ie fatter)than they were several years ago...

for instance there was a time when you could take a basketball/ tennis player and convert him to the distances
(think bjorn borg/ isiah thomas)

but now it aint the same (think federer/ sampras/ shaq)

Hell Kareem was built like a damned distance runner, just 7 foot plus

Now a days- The kids are just Too thick

More like 1-3% max
Not Sure
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 5:24PM - in reply to Run5k Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think the original poster might be right. I think that a larger percentage of high school athletes could run sub 4:30 if they trained for it than we would like to believe.

It's like the huge numbers of guys running sub 2:30 marathons back in the 70s. Why were so many more able to do it? Because so many people were training to do it.

If more high schoolers trained to run track, I think we'd see a lot more 4:30s.

In response to the original poster, though, we call it training for a reason. The training is what makes us better. You need to set goals and train to reach them. That's what we all do. What sets us apart from other people is that they aren't willing to do the training. And so we run the sub 4:30s, the sub 2:00s and the sub 2:30s. And they don't.

Likewise, they train to score 40 points per game, and we don't. But that's not to say we couldn't if we chose that sport.
Seriously...
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 5:29PM - in reply to My Opinion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I coach at a high school that has won two state soccer championships in the last three years. Many of the soccer players run track as well. Both boys and girls are useless to me past 400 meters. I believe 2:50 is the best I've gotten from an 8 for the girls and 2:12 is the best from the boys soccer players. Neither of these is top 8 on my depth chart. I've had one soccer player make my varsity 4x4 squad in both boys and girls each year. Those athletes are the fastest on the soccer team by the way.

A hard 10 miler. We do those sub 60 where I coach. I don't know a soccer player that could hit that pace for 5 miles.

From an elite perspective, no one from another sport could step out of their sport and make a dent. From a league perspective, the only thing that would make a difference is a couple basketball players to jump and football players to throw. It doesn't take much to get one of these guys to throw 50 feet or jump 6 feet and while that will do nothing at the national level, it will win many points in any league that I know of.
Tommy2Nuts
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 6:05PM - in reply to really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
qGood wuestion actually. Depends on what angle you want to view it from.

Lets take distance running:

Its a great sport if you are into it for personal competition or just health and fitness.

Its a joke if you're a Western athlete doing it for financial gain. Quite frankly whatever piddly money is out there will go to the top Africans. Road racing is not going to pay your bills. So yes in that sense it is a joke.

Even putting money aside, chasing records is pretty futile for Western athletes. Some local records amy tumble, even less national ones may fall, but forget about reaching the ultimate pinnacles of the sport...WR's are out of reach as are Olympic medals.

Call me negative for my comments, I just prefer the term honest.
Mick Surly
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 6:09PM - in reply to Not Sure Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Not Sure wrote:

I think the original poster might be right. I think that a larger percentage of high school athletes could run sub 4:30 if they trained for it than we would like to believe.

It's like the huge numbers of guys running sub 2:30 marathons back in the 70s. Why were so many more able to do it? Because so many people were training to do it.

If more high schoolers trained to run track, I think we'd see a lot more 4:30s.

In response to the original poster, though, we call it training for a reason. The training is what makes us better. You need to set goals and train to reach them. That's what we all do. What sets us apart from other people is that they aren't willing to do the training. And so we run the sub 4:30s, the sub 2:00s and the sub 2:30s. And they don't.

Likewise, they train to score 40 points per game, and we don't. But that's not to say we couldn't if we chose that sport.



great post
hot damn
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 7:54PM - in reply to Seriously... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i went from playing soccer my freshman year and doing 2 workouts a week on the track and running 4:45/2:04 to running 6 days a week as a sophmore and running a 4:30/1:58. all of the good runners from my school played soccer, then trained for a year and had excellent times.
Jebadiah
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:06PM - in reply to My Opinion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My Opinion wrote:

Soccer players who excel on the field tend to have natural speed and endurance, plus the fact that the workouts and games that they partcipate in are vO2 max type workouts. Take a soccer player and make him run a hard 10 miler, and he will be hurting - but he might just be able to bust a sub 5 or faster mile without any previous race experience.


A soccer player at my old high school ran a 4:46 mile off of soccer training. They were doing sprints and my coached noticed the fact he wasnt getting tired or fatigued. He asked him to run a track meet and he did. He ran the mile in 4:46 after running a 2:05 800.
Jebadiah
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:09PM - in reply to Seriously... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Seriously... wrote:

I coach at a high school that has won two state soccer championships in the last three years. Many of the soccer players run track as well. Both boys and girls are useless to me past 400 meters. I believe 2:50 is the best I've gotten from an 8 for the girls and 2:12 is the best from the boys soccer players. Neither of these is top 8 on my depth chart. I've had one soccer player make my varsity 4x4 squad in both boys and girls each year. Those athletes are the fastest on the soccer team by the way.

A hard 10 miler. We do those sub 60 where I coach. I don't know a soccer player that could hit that pace for 5 miles.

From an elite perspective, no one from another sport could step out of their sport and make a dent. From a league perspective, the only thing that would make a difference is a couple basketball players to jump and football players to throw. It doesn't take much to get one of these guys to throw 50 feet or jump 6 feet and while that will do nothing at the national level, it will win many points in any league that I know of.



Well sounds more to me that your not a very good track coach if you can produce anything faster than 2:50 and 2:12 from your soccer player transferring to track.
hot damn
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:13PM - in reply to Jebadiah Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
ya you must suck as a coach
hot midwest boy
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:15PM - in reply to Jebadiah Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I'd say your average large suburban high school, in or near a city of 50,000 or more, with a student populace of 1000-2000 kids, could produce at least 5-10 sub-4:30 guys a year, if a good coach was there and all the kids who had the genetic ability gave it a shot.

Think about it ... if even one percent of kids could do it in a school of 1,000 boys, that would be 10. If you look at a lot of the schools that have produced the best teams, it's mainly because they've got good coaches who get the kids out ... not because there's something about that area that's producing better genetic talent ... like Rockford, York, Mt. View, etc.
biggity bam
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:53PM - in reply to hot midwest boy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
a kid from iowa this year won the big school state championship and also ran a 15:07 on the state course a couple weeks before the state meet, the first mile of that race being around 4:35. he is a junior who hadn't ran before this year. he played soccer so this shows you that there might be a state champion in alot of schools that just is playing a different sport. i think this kid is going to continue playing soccer and not do track but his impact on cross country is undeniable.
Ex-Thrower
RE: Is the sport of running pretty much a joke? 1/14/2006 8:58PM - in reply to hot midwest boy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There's a thousand boys at Rockford HS and they have never had 10 of them dip below 4:30 in the same year- so you just disproved your own scenario. Running sub 4:30 for the mile is very difficult, regardless of what all you "Frank Shorter" types on here think.

To the original poster, a 4:20 mile is incredible to any subset of people in America- accept those who frequent this board.
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