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Big Wave
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 8:54PM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
unless ofcourse its a real race...you know what I mean.
pogo
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:00PM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Cars can be a bit off. Try and find two road bikers and ask them to cover the course.

(Google Maps is off because of elevation changes, so I'd imagine Google earth would be as well.)
SoCali
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:01PM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I couldn't imagine running a mile out on the streets in New Hampshire in December. That would suck ass. I hate cold places.
giffypop17
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:02PM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Big Wave wrote:
I've used "Google Earth" to measure it out to the hundredth of a foot and will also use a car just to see if there's a huge difference or anything. The elevation difference is almost 200ft...going from 353ft to 157ft pretty steadily, no sudden drop offs...except for maybe the first 20yds.


I hope that's a typo, because you can't get anywhere even close to that type of accuracy with Google Earth. The best you could hope for was to be within 10-15 meters. If I was your friend, I'd never accept that type of measurement.

And where did you obtain your elevation data? Google Earth doesn't have elevation data for most places, it just measures the distance relative to 'level'. Simple geometry tells us that the hypotenuse is always the longest segment of a triangle, so if you measure that mile with Google Earth (or any similar tools), you may be running quite a bit more than a mile, especially on a steeper hill.



Edwardo Stade wrote:
Also, you should measure the course with a bike (not a car). Car pedometers can be inaccurate. A bike cpu is right on.


This is true that car odometers (not pedometers) can be very innacurate, but so can bike odometers. The difference is that there's a practical and accurate way to calibrate the odometer for the bike. Not so for the car. Don't try for any accuracy using any device called a pedometer unless your goal is simply to measure how many steps you take without any regard to actual distance.



The best way to measure this is to use a bike or a measuring wheel that has been accurately and recently calibrated. Assuming this road is fairly straight (i got that impression), simply pick a start or finish, spray paint a line, center your bike wheel over it, zero the odometer, and ride as straight a line as you can(unless you want to run long) until you get to a mile, stop the bike exactly there, and paint a line right at the bottom center of your wheel, where it touches the ground. I assume since you differentiated between a mile and a 1600, you already know that if you have a metric measuring device, you need to go for 1609.3 meters. (don't anybody bother correcting me by showing more decimal places, because he's not going to get more accurate than that with this type of measurement anyway)

If you can make it match up with the parts of the hill you're wanting, see if you can line up your start and finish with some permanent mark, like a stop sign, a pavement joint, etc. Then you've got a permanent course even if your marks fade away. It'd be awesome to keep that course alive and develop some sort of tradition here.
Edwardo Stade
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:06PM - in reply to giffypop17 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oops. Meant to say odometer (not pedometer). Use a bike to measure (if you use a hand wheel it is much harder to keep it in a straight line for a whole mile--it will wobble side to side a bit--with a bike you can just bomb downhill and it will be pretty straight).
zzzzzzzzzzzz
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:07PM - in reply to giffypop17 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Dude this guy is garbage, take your 4:04 1500 and get out of here.
Big Wave
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:13PM - in reply to giffypop17 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Actually, google earth does have the elevation and stuff. If you look right at the bottom of the image it says the eye elevation (what elevation you're viewing from) and the actual elevation. Granted it won't factor in the difference of buildings and stuff when you put your mouse over them, but I think its good enough in terms of elevation.

We've decided that we're gonna get two bikes with odometers and have them measure it out. If they stop in different places we'll just make the finish line the middle between them. Thanks guys...keep em coming.
Big Wave
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 9:20PM - in reply to zzzzzzzzzzzz Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Once the deed is done I will happily post both videos if someone would tell me how. Maybe even one of the naked mile if you guys are into that sort of thing.
giffypop17
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 10:00PM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Big Wave wrote:

Actually, google earth does have the elevation and stuff...


i said for all areas. but glad it works where you live. also glad you're going with the bikes.

the bet seems lopsided. you putting up sub4 seems worth more than a naked mile. unless you're advertising to the whole campus when and where he's doing it, anyone can just take off in the middle of the night and run a 5 minute or less mile and only get seen by a few people.

make him run the same course you do, and tell your campus in advance. if you're really mean, you could hide his clothes at the bottom of the hill.
WVrunner
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/7/2005 10:08PM - in reply to giffypop17 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Casey Batey ran a 3:38 mile downhill and has never run under four on the track. You should be able to go well under 4:00 if you can legitimately run 4:04 in a time trial.
dukerdog
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 3:41AM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Big Wave wrote:
We've decided that we're gonna get two bikes with odometers and have them measure it out. If they stop in different places we'll just make the finish line the middle between them. Thanks guys...keep em coming.

It's still not going to be that accurate if the bikes aren't calibrated. You need some short straight course of a known distance to use for calibration. Unless you have that I'm not sure you're going to be any more accurate than Google Earth.
CrossFan
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 4:37AM - in reply to dukerdog Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Just a suggestion...

Why just not worry about the distance yet, and just run 4 minutes all out from a marked starting point, and then mark where you are at 4min (or 3:59.9), determined by someone riding next to you on the bike (maybe even add a foot or so to be sure)? Then all you have to do is let anyone measure it at any time after that in any way they please. If they measure it accurately, it just needs to be over a mile for you to win the bet. If you are well under 4min, probably any method they use will call it good.

Just saves you the hassle of organizing the logistics of all the measuring and stuff ahead of time. It could be measured any time by someone who wants to "certify" or legitimize it.

Good luck. If I were that close, I think I'd do the same thing. And BTW, I've known coaches who train downhill like this for speedwork to get their runners to become accustom to feeling fast, how quickly they need to turn their legs over, training their bodies/minds to be familiar with that rythm, etc...
strike me
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 5:24AM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
hey big wave great idea and story. when is the event happening? i realise its got to be pretty soon cos of time constraints. Good to see a talented runner taking things not too seriously.

You could get a gps device and try to measure it using that, a good one is accurta to max 6 metres over a mile often much less. a local sport shop may let you use one for free if you advertise the attempt in their name or get them involved in some shape or form - maybe wear one of their vests.

I would also try to measure it before hand and make distance markers at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 as these could be very imprtant psychologically - obviously not too crucial in the split times due to the gradient changes.

Good luck my friend an ddon't bother posting the naked mile unless your friend happens to be a hot female
Downhill dude
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 5:45AM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
One thing I'd worry a little about is attempting to run a "real" mile on a track after this attempt. Downhill running can really trash the thighs. I ran an 8 mile race downhill (Ski to Sea, in Washington), one of my 5k splits was 14:45 (this was at a time when my 5k pr was 15:29). The next three days I could barely walk because of the pounding my legs had taken. So there may some soreness afterwards.

But good luck with the attempt. Keep us informed.
well...
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 6:00AM - in reply to Downhill dude Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
you should run well under 4:00. as a sophomore in college i was a 4:20 miler. i ran the big boy mile (wheeling, wv) that year 3:55. it's elevation change is 200'. that race was easily 20 seconds faster than flat ground. you should kill 4 minutes.
wags
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 8:42AM - in reply to well... Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
2 years ago i raced a downhill mile once in Bryn Mawr, PA. if i remember correctly it felt like a 1200, i would suggest that you just run it at the pace you would run a 1200 and the downhill will let you carry it for another quarter. And don't worry about the pounding on your legs, a mile wont beat you up too bad, now somthing longer could beat you up.
Joseph McVeigh
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 9:21AM - in reply to Big Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've run some downhill races -- some actual advice here --

The 2 keys --
- position so that you are as close to peepindicular to the surface as you can be. On steep parts this may feel like you are falling forward a little.
- concentrate on turnover...don't overstride, which will be the natural tendency --

I also agree with the guy who suggested doing some short downhill repeats (soft surface preferable here).
Ess Eff Plodder
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 9:27AM - in reply to Joseph McVeigh Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A couple of years ago I was 3rd down leg 1 of Hood to Coast a considerable distance behind Mr. McVeigh.

My watch said 3:41 at the 1 mile marker on the road. I count that as my mile PR.

:-)
mjlaye
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 9:31AM - in reply to Ess Eff Plodder Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think all these comments on measuring with a bike, or with a car, goggle earth, gps, etc. are great but you HAVE to use a wheel. I would not accept anything else if I were your friend. It is the tried and true method IMHO. Other than that I say let it rip sounds like you should not have a problem.
surveyor
RE: SUB-4 MINUTE MILE ATTEMPT....DOWNHILL!!! 12/8/2005 9:50AM - in reply to mjlaye Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
forget the wheel, bike, car, etc
If you want no questioning about the distance hire a surveyor to do it. They could get the distance measured withing a couple hundreths of an inch
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