APU and Webb results...

rumor has him 5th in 1:50-1:51

another torres bitch.

If he did run 1:50-51, then NOW is the time to start to slightly worry, as we are in outdoors.

We can say it's still early, but is someone who really needs to be 1:45-1:46'ish at the end of the summer. If he would have won, then it's a different matter (he could have run faster, etc...).

If Webb is doing everything Ratzko (sp??) is asking, then NOW is the time that we start raising eyebrows towards the coach. Maybe he gets faster later, but until then, I am becoming a skepic of the training (not of signing the contract).

Damn ttc, I agree with you.

let's wait on the final results. it could just be rumor.

still can't find official results to post, but have heard from 2 sources: the time and place are basically accurate.

Trouble in Restonville. We are about a month away from serious soulsearching and borderline panic. I think the combination of a coach who is in over his head, Webb's confidence being totally shot, and possible physical problems are all part of this problem. Does anyone see ANY positive signs with this setup??

Confirmation i suppose from Dyestat:

Webb takes 5th today @APU Invit.

He took 5th place today. He didnt look too good and got run down by 2 other runners in the stretch. The winning time in his heat was mid 1:49's so he must have been in the high 1:50's to low 1:51's.. Im not very impressed with his performances since HS.

He doesnt seem to have the confidence that he once had. I think he maybe should get into Nike's Farm team or something like that. He coach doesnt seem to be getting the results he should be getting. Nike is paying alot of money for some decent to good results and so far has gotten neither. I sure hope hope he gets going back on the right track to success.

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04-13-2003 01:34 AM

king99

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IF he got 5th in that comp running THAT time I would say as I have said sometimes ..that he is further away than most think

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04-13-2003 01:40 AM

sxyirishman

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this is not good...I almost don't even believe the validity of it...

if he won in 1:50 then maybe you could make some sort of argument such as his 14:06 win...but getting 5th in a pretty podunk college invite in a pretty poor time...not much more you can say, just not a good performance

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A Good Run is Better Than a Long Stand

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04-13-2003 01:50 AM

gladiator

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If we continue to see this stuff throughout this outdoor season,

Its Bye Bye Mr. Raczko, who will become a footnote in history.

Either that or he has some kind of health problem we don't yet know about.

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04-13-2003 02:15 AM

Dr. M

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I really wish Razcko would stop babying Webb and would just start killing him in terms of mileage. If you look at HS prodigies, they do one of two things: 1.) They improve signifigantly and go on to produce amazing times, although they tend to peak earlier in their careers (i.e. Ryun and Lindgren) 2.) They do nothing after high school (i.e. Granville and Obea Moore).

As of right now it looks like Alan Webb is the second. I'm tired of this "long term development" BS, or basically any other excuse. It's just not the way it works with prodigies like him. The truly great will come out on top no matter what is against them...

I hope he bucks the trend but look at guys like Ryun, Salazar, Virgin, basically all the High School legends that went on to world fame. They weren't world beaters when they were 27, 28, they were peaking at 23, 24. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen a high school prodigy flop their first few yeasr only to come back and reach world success...

This is what happens when you put yourself in the hands of a 30 year old high school coach with no real experience.

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04-13-2003 03:14 AM

sxyirishman

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quote:

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As of right now it looks like Alan Webb is the second. I'm tired of this "long term development"

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something tells me your one of them famed 4:30 highschool milers that probably had the talent, but not the sack to realize what it took to get to the pinnacle.

Although I understand what your getting at, that quote does nothing but prove your ignorance. What? you think banging out 100 miles a week for a month is gonna get you a 3:45 mile? This little sport of distance running takes years of miles and workouts to get there.

and I quote from Once a Runner: "The only way to truly marshal the ferocity of your ambition over the course of many days, weeks, months, and (if you could finally come to accept it) years." (pg. 13)

Oh, and Ryun was out of the sport during his early 20's, only to come back and set the mile WR during a "comeback" of his.

__________________

Is fearr rith maith ná seasamh fada-

A Good Run is Better Than a Long Stand

Remember he ran a 3:53 mile with the same coach two years ago.

Let's wait and see what happens at the KU Relays. If Webb isn't around 3:57 or so, I'll be shocked. He's got the strength and there will be a rabbit. Plus, Chuck Gruber will be in the race, and he has no fear of taking it early. I think Webb is just missing some snap in his legs, ie he's been doing a whole lot more strength training than speed, looking to the summer, where he should be looking, rather than the spring.

As for Jim Ryun, he did not run a WR after returning to running in his mid-20s. He ran the #3 all time mile, a 3:52 in Toronto in 1972, which, ironically, was read as his 1500m by the computer in Munich, placing him in the same heat as Kip Keino. As the #1 and #2 seeds, they were to be in different heats. We all know what happened to Ryun in that heat.

As a side note, Ryan Hall is back at Stanford, training very well, and will race this summer.

drewr-

Looks like you've got some good info on Ryun. Don't know how you know so much- you must be a big fan. Anyway, I'll have to beg to differ regarding Webb at KU this weekend. The little guy has lost all of his confidence. Look for a second place to Gruber with a less than stellar 4.04. Hate to say it, but the kid should have stayed at Michigan.

Drew,

Are you training again?

Super Swede-

Dude, you don't know what you are talking about-period!! What, were you some sort ot runner at one time? All that weight lifting is altering your brainwaves. Ha!Ha!

I didn't say Webb was going to win, but I do think both he and Chuck are under 4 (if conditions are right). I'll let you know first this next Sat.

Junior-

A little bit. Ned,a buddy and I are hitting 50-60min thresholds plus 4-6 x300 afterwards on Tuesdays, hill repeats on Thursday and a long run on Sat. More just for fun these days, blow off some steam after work here in DC. I am feeling rather fit, though.

I believe you're mistaken regarding Ryun setting a world record after his hiatus. He set world records in '66 and '67 while in college, ran in the Olympics in 1968 (finishing second), then dropped out of running for two years. He returned in 1971 and lost to Marty Liquori in their famous showdown, then ran in the 1972 Olympics where he fell in the heats and didn't make the final. He never set a world record after 1967.

I haven't given up on Alan Webb yet, although it's not looking good. To go back to the Ryun comparison, he went from beating the Olympic champion Snell to setting the high school record to setting world records almost instantaneously. That's not happening with Webb. Maybe too much was made of Webb breaking Ryun's record. At the time Ryun set his record of 3:55, the world record was 3:53, but when Webb broke Ryun's record, the world record stood at 3:44.

How's it going Drew? Havent talked in a LONG time. Glad to see that everything is going pretty well from the post above. Talk to ya soon

ttc wrote:

If Webb is doing everything Ratzko (sp??) is asking, then NOW is the time that we start raising eyebrows towards the coach.

Hey, Mr. Short-sighted, how do you figure a SEASON PLAN can be evaluated until AFTER the season is OVER??!!??

Oh no, brain waves are firing just fine. I was curious to see if you cared for a friendly wager on the sub 4 matter. I doubt if anyone goes sub 4 this weekend, though I wish it weren't so. However, as a side note, I hear that Roy Williams will be handing out the medal to the second place finisher this year. Rock-chock chickenhawk.

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ttc wrote:

If Webb is doing everything Ratzko (sp??) is asking, then NOW is the time that we start raising eyebrows towards the coach.

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guess again wrote:

Hey, Mr. Short-sighted, how do you figure a SEASON PLAN can be evaluated until AFTER the season is OVER??!!??

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Guess Again,

Of course Webb's season cannot be evaluated fully and accurately until the season is over. That's why "raising an eyebrow" towards the coach was all that I phrased at this point.

But my view is that most of the time, an elite runner will not drop 5-6 seconds off of his 800m time from the beginning of the season to the end. Webb will need to drop off at least 2-3 seconds off the 800m time in a couple of months for a good USATF 1500m, and if the WC's beckon, another 2-4 seconds to even get past the first 1500m round.

Running 1:50-1:51 at this point cannot be what he or his coach had in mind....

BUT if he can hit, at worst, a 3:58 next week, or claim a victory with a sub-4:00, then I may change my mind on being critical of the coach.

Drew,

Glad to hear all is well. Give my best to Ned. Dr. Maher keeps me up to date for the most part.

For fun is such a great thing!!!

JP