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| Runningart2004 |
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All good answers so far, so I will summarize. Squat: quads, glutes mostly, really works the entire body. Bench: chest, some anterior deltoid/tris Row: Traps, some lat, bi RDL: Low back, hamstring Shoulder Press: medial deltoid, some tri (anterior delt if db held in front) Lat Pulldown: Lats, some trap, bi The PRIME MOVER is being worked once during the above workout: Quads, Chest, Trap, Hamstring, Deltoids, Lats. PLUS you're doing plyos that week as well so that's more leg work. You will always feel an exercise in your weakest muscle group. This is why it is so difficult to feel anything in your glutes, especially for runners. The glutes are your strongest muscle. If you really want to feel these then you'll have to lift very heavy and deep as the glutes are activated mostly during high intensity contractions and out of hip flexion. Yes a step up would be a great alternative. For Squats go to at least parallel. Ideally go as low as you can go. Do Not Let Weight Dictate Form. Let your form dictate your weight. If you cannot complete proper form, ie: complete range of motion in a controlled fashion, then the weight is too heavy. Pay especially close attention to these during the Squat, RDL, and any pulling motions (Row). You will not hypertrophy. You will not hypertrophy. You will not hypertrophy. You will not hypertrophy. You will not hypertrophy. I'm going to get a shirt made to give out to girls/women and male distance runners that says "Lifting Weights Will Not Make Me Swoooooooold!" On the back of the shirt will be a top 5 list: 1. You are not producing enough testosterone to add large amounts of muscle. 2. You are producing too much cortisol to build ANYTHING. 3. Your body is in a continual state of muscle breakdown and repair. 4. You will NEVER build muscle as long as you are running an hour a day. 5. Unless you're eating 200g of protein a day you will not gain significant muscle mass. For variation here is a list of other exercises: 1. Squat, Lunge, Step Up 2. Bench, Fly, Incline/Decline variations 3. DB Row, Chest supported Row, Seated Row, T-Bar Row 4. RDL, Deadlift *don't do deadlift after/before back exercise, don't do deadlift and squat in the same workout*, glute/ham raise, hyperextension, Straight Leg Deadlift, Good-morning 5. Shoulder Press, front raise, lateral raise, y-raise, incline varations, upright row, scarecrow, L-raise 6. Lat Pulldown, pullups, straight arm pulldown, pullover, grip width variations ....and that is only the beginning, there are 1000s of ways to do an exercise or hit a muscle Alan |
| ATX |
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Thanks! Great help. |
| Ee Liz Ee Bee Eth Ah |
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DO THE BIRD! |
| Atticus |
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Alright. Come on. Guys. Stop it! I have no recollection of this. SQUAAWKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK |
| whatever man |
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Some links should this interest you: http://trackandfieldnews.com/technique/107-George_Gandy.pdf#search=%22gandy%20middle%20distance%20training%22 http://faculty.washington.edu/crowther/Misc/RBC/strength.shtml www.britathletex.com Hicham El Guerroj's Leg, Plyometric and Core Work routine: Half-squat 6 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar Half-squat 4 x 16 reps with 30 kg bar Squat 4 x 16 reps with 20 kg bar In machines/apparatus: Hamstrings 4 x 16 reps Quadriceps 4 x 16 reps Abductors 4 x 16 reps Adductors 4 x 16 reps Lunges 4 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar Step-up 1 x 20 reps with 30 kg bar with each leg Abdominal 300-400-meter reps Back 300-400 reps Once a week up-hills 10 x 300-meters Horizontal jumps and vertical jumps over hurdles. |
| ATX |
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One final question, Runningart2004. I pretty much hit every muscle in my lower body by doing the full squats (felt great and really worked my glutes like never before as I always stopped halfway on them) and Romanian deadlifts. But I don't think I ever felt my calves being worked at all (except as stabilizers on the full squats - not really much calf ROM). Seeing how calves are very important during the toe-off phase while running, would it be a good idea to add standing calf raises to work the calves through a full plantar flexion ROM? I know that during plyos you are going to really work the calves (along with every muscles in the lowerbody), but it will be more in the sense of explosive strength/power rather than pure absolute strength. Like you said, doing power work without absolute strength workouts is like doing intervals without easy mileage. Thanks. You have been a great help. |
| Kevin3310 |
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quote of anthony colotti, he seems pretty knowledgable about S&C "Calf Raises?!! If you wanna run neurally backwards go right ahead. On the track you should run with your toes cocked UP, not pointed down like a friggin ballerina. Ever wonder why your calves get tight after track workouts in spikes? Hmmm... Squat DEEP, Squat heavy. Do it after your hard workouts to maximize recovery between hard days (and after you eat/drink something). Don't disgrace our sport with some sissy half squat crap, not to mention it will completely kill your glute/high hamstring strength." |
| Runningart2004 |
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Good points above. You do not actively contract your calves during running. They contract through the stretch-reflex. They contract because they must. During the landing phase they are typically placed under a powerful stretch and eccentric contraction. Think of your calves as a spring. Look what happens to the calves of most runners....they increase in size compared to the average population. Look at what happens to the ankle joint during a deep squat...full dorsi flexion then back to a neutral position. If you find yourself developing achilles issues or just want to add calf work try eccentric calf raises and bent-knee pointers (slightly flex the knee, hold this static contraction as you reach to the left, front, right with your knee). You're not going to feel a huge contraction in the calf with squats or any other functional movement. You never work the calf in isolation so unless you are trying to correct issues related to injury I wouldn't recommend isolated calf work. Alan |
| ATX |
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Thanks. Good explanation. My initial thought was that the calves contract right at toe-off, which they do, but I can see what you mean when you say that they don't contract forcefully, rather than that it is a stretch-reflex contraction. Plyos should train the calves eccentrically better than doing eccentric calf raises, so I'll pass on them. Thanks. |
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To: Runningart2004 From: General Strength devotee First, loved the T-Shirt quotes. Second, can you link to some primary research articles or other reading that discuss the levels of cortisol vs. anabolic hormones in response to general strength exercises. Thanks for your contributions to this site. |
| Runningart2004 |
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In general... 1. Cortisol is released in response to stress of any kind. The more stress the more cortisol is released. Cortisol causes the breakdown of tissue, especially muscle tissue. Repetitive stress, ie: running/steady cardio, causes more cortisol to be released, which causes more muscle breakdown which is why most runners are rail thin. 2. Cortisol release remains high following exercise, of course the more stressful the exercise the more cortisol is released. Runners and endurance athletes, who are almost always under a state of stress are cortisol producing machines. 3. When weight training you want to regulate cortisol. You want it released during exercise and stop it post-exercise. This is why you should eat a relatively high carbohydrate meal post-exercise as this replacement of glycogen slow or stops the cortisol release so that the body can now focus on building muscle instead of breaking it down. 4. Cortisol and Testosterone are derived from the same thing in the body. So, if you are a cortisol producing monster (runners) you will typically have very low testosterone (which is why the T:E test used for doping is bunk as endurance athletes will have a LOWER than normal testosterone level). 5. Exercise that produces high lactate values are associated with a much higher increase in anabolic hormones (testosterone, insulin-like growth factor, human growth hormone). 6. Weight training in the 8-12 rep range, sets lasting 40-70 seconds, elicit a higher release of anabolic hormones than the super heavy strength sets. Of course long lasting sets with a high density, ie: 10 sets of 3 reps, will elicit a very high response since the volume is very high with the high intensity. Most of this is just from the CSCS "Bible"...."Essentials of Strength Training & Conditioning". A quick PubMed search: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831061 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057315 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947720 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19046725 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16377941 Alan |
| Waiatarua |
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Weight training routines of numerous Africans, New Zealanders, and Japanese: *Nothing *Nothing *Nothing In my opinion (and in the opinion of Arthur Lydiard, John Kellogg, and many others) weight lifting is a waste of time--time that would be better spent running. HOWEVER: Plyometrics have their place. But eliminate silly things like lateral hops. When will you ever need to "cut" left or right in a 1500m race? The closer you stay to running, the better it is for you. Lydiard's boys did bounding and springing uphill. |
| Runningart2004 |
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Doesn't matter what you, JK, AL, or any other running coach or guru thinks. Heavy weight lifting improves performance. Heavy weight lifting improves running economy. Plyometrics improves performance. Plyometrics improves running economy. Doing plyometrics without doing weight training is like doing nothing but intervals without a distance base. Do as little as possible to get the desired result, but keep the intensity high. It boggles my mind why the "common wisdom" in the running world is 50 years behind all other professional sports. Even golfers lift....GOLFERS!!!!! Steve Spence switched from a high rep low weight routine to a basic lifting routine of 3 x 10 reps prior to winning the World Champs Marathon in 1991. This is a fact. Geb does gym work. I've read an article about it eons ago. This is a fact. These are facts: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978605 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762828 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12627298 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545191 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18550953 Every single study that has ever been published measuring the effects of strength training and/or plyometrics on endurance running has shown an improvement in running economy and/or actual running performance. This is a fact. The question has always been the what, when, and how. You don't need much volume. You only need enough to increase strength. Even 1 set would be enough. 1. One day a week, as a secondary workout, do this in the PM if you do a hard workout in the AM. Squat Bench DB Row RDL Shoulder Press Lat Pulldown or pullups 6-12 reps. Linear progression over the course of 4 weeks. 1-3 sets. 4-0-1 tempo. 60-120s rest. More volume when not in-season. Less when racing. Shouldn't take more than 30-40 minutes. 2. One day a week, as a secondary workout, do this in the PM if you do a hard workout in the AM. Plyometrics: Box Jumps Split Jumps on a Box Jumps for distance Split Jumps for distance Bounds up a hill |
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runningart I enjoy reading your responses and I have followed your advice. However your explosive movement routine is very tough for my HS boys. I guess the time between doing strength and their running workouts is not enough and they have gotten extremely sore and some a bit hurt. However my more mature athletes are doing great. Any advice for young athletes that lift and then run right immediately after. |
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all very interesting...thank you Alan. The body is very smart...high intensity lactate causing workouts cause the body to bulk up and less intense work causes the body to shed muscle. Does cortisol cause an athlete to put on fat as well? I saw something on tv about it increasing belly fat, I think. Sort of like the body going into hybernation for a bit when you stress it too much...or is that just a myth from daytime infomercials? |
| Runningart2004 |
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Use what works. Get rid of what is not working. If it is too tough then don't do it or don't do so much volume. A high school kid would do much less than a mature adult. It's not enough to simply know a workout. It's more important to know how to implement a workout, when to use it, and how to change it to meet the needs of your athletes. You don't just throw people in the deep end and hope they learn how to swim. Learning to lift is fairly easy. 1 set of 8-12 reps would be good for most beginners/high schoolers. Explosive movements are much harder. For a beginner/high schooler I'd suggest 10 reps of box jump. 10 reps of split jumps on a box and that's it! Since we're talking about plyometrics lets talk about progression with plyometrics.... There are a number of ways to measure volume and intensity with plyometrics: counting jumps, counting time, distance covered, height of box, etc. I like using time because as you progress and improve the number of jumps per unit of time should be greater... Beginner/High Schooler Day 1: 10 Box jumps, 10 Split Jumps on a Box. Box is 12-24in high. That's it. Short and sweet. Week 1-2: 30 sec box jumps, 90 sec rest, 30 sec split jumps on box, 90 sec rest. Repeat 2-3 times. Week 3-4: 30 sec box jumps, 90 sec rest, 30 sec split jumps on box, 90 sec rest. Repeat 3-4 times. Week 5-6: 30 sec hops, 90 sec rest, 30 sec single leg hops (each leg), 90 sec rest, 30 sec box jumps, 90 sec rest, 30 sec split jumps on box, 90 sec rest. Repeat 2-3 times Week 7-12: Progress by increasing distance of hops and height of box. *Box Jumps: Goal is to jump up onto the box and back down. *Split Jumps On Box: Goal is HEIGHT not speed. Use that leg to DRIVE yourself into the air. *Hops/Single Leg Hops: Goal is distance covered in 30 sec. Ideal to have a short distance to cover and go back and forth. When in doubt, cut the volume. When weight training or doing plyometrics do not think like a runner. Think like a strength athlete. Long rests. 90 sec rest is bare minimum. For absolute strength and power you'd need to rest upwards of 3 minutes. So, when lifting/doing plyos, if you notice your strength is reduced....take 3 minutes rest. Your ATP stores will regenerate fairly quickly (thus the 90s rest), your CNS recovers much slower (thus the 3:00 rest). Since our goal at the beginning is simply getting adjusted to the exercises, increased density of training, volume, I would stick with the 90s rest at first for both strength training and plyometrics. Once you start doing your more intense interval training I'd shift towards 3:00 rests. So as an example: June/July/August: Weight training once a week, circuit training, 2-3 sets, 6-12 reps using linear progression, 90s rests. Plyometrics once a week 15-25 minutes total, 90s rests. Sept/Oct/Nov: Weight training once a week, 1-2 sets, 4-8 reps using linear progression, 3:00 rests. Plyometrics once a week 15-25 minutes total, 3:00 rests. Peak races: One day of combined weight training/plyos lasting 15-30 minutes. Again, everything I post about this stuff is just examples. Pick up a few books and make your own judgements for your own athletes. I'm not there to train your athletes, you are. I'm not there to train you, you are. Alan |
| Runningart2004 |
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Yes cortisol causes increases in belly fat. Hormones and hormone balance is the reason why people store fat in certain areas. You want to "spot reduce", then fix your hormone profile. Look up Biosignature Modulation. When cortisol is released it causes a breakdown of muscle protein, leading to release of amino acids. These amino acids are then used by the liver to synthesize glucose for energy via gluconeogenesis. Cortisol also leads to the release of fatty acids. During exercise all of this is good because your working muscle need the energy. The problem with cortisol is that after a very stressful session (prolonged endurance training, excessive weight training) cortisol remains high for a long time. Cortisol also increases appetite, the so-called "stress eating". So yes, excessive cortisol leads to fat gain in the stomach....which is why so many hardcore exercisers and many runners have that "soft belly syndrome". If your diet is crap and you overexercise you will retain a flabby belly. |
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Alan, Could you explain the tempo rate? What is 4-0-1? Secondly, I have been really enjoying the full squats but I do have some questions about proper form? I have realized a few things. If I pause for a split second at the lowest point (I'm pretty flexible so my butt is only 2-3 inches off the floor), the earlier part of the ascent is much much harder compared to when I don't stop and more or less bounce off from the bottom? What is the correct way? The faster I descent and bounce off, the more I can lift. Should there be an ideal pace? Also, when I'm lifting really heavy, sometimes my left knee rotates in (not much but quite a bit) and I end up shifting my weight a bit to the front of the foot right at the sticking point? I'm guessing the weight is a bit too heavy? Thanks. |
| interested in weights |
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Running Art, My reading has told me that it is best to do 3-6 lifts per set. What is your view on this compared to the 6-10 you recommend? Thanks |
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